Stupid line...or not

[Denutz]

Last night was horrible. I've thought about this hand a lot, but I'm not sure what I could have done differently. Villian just took down a $2.7k 4 way pot (800 NL table) when he hit his nut flush draw on the river vs. top set on the flop, two pair, and my 2nd nut flush draw. Seen him play before and he loves the huge overbet - sometimes has nothing, other times has the goods.

Anyways, here's the hand:

Hero $800
Villian $2700
(5 person table)

Dealt to Hero A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Pot preflop $48, 4 players in

Flop 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets $20
Villian raises to $40
Hero calls (should I have raised here? My reasoning was that he was bluffing, didn't want to take him out yet and wanted to use his aggressiveness)

Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks
Villain $204
Hero calls (pot is $536)

River...

Any comments appreciated. Is my line idiotic? Push the turn? Push the flop?

[LondonBroil]

Raise preflop.

What position are you? Why are you betting less than half the pot on the flop?

why are you playing this hand scared?

[psuasskicker]

I don't hate playing smallball in certain hands like this at times, but you look like you're a quivering lump of flesh after showing this down (win or lose) and you should expect to be picked on mercilessly afterwards. I only smallball like this if I have been exceptionally aggro for a while, and it sounds like you hadn't been so I'm not a fan of this.

- C -

[Denutz]

Good questions - I'm not a huge fan of tptk hands for large pots. But in this instance, it was hard to imagine I was behind.

Yes, should have potted flop. On turn, what line would you take? Push?

River was another spade...I checked he pushed for $750. Action to me...what do I do?

[howzit]

[ QUOTE ]
Last night was horrible. I've thought about this hand a lot, but I'm not sure what I could have done differently. Villian just took down a $2.7k 4 way pot (800 NL table) when he hit his nut flush draw on the river vs. top set on the flop, two pair, and my 2nd nut flush draw. Seen him play before and he loves the huge overbet - sometimes has nothing, other times has the goods.

Anyways, here's the hand:

Hero $800
Villian $2700
(5 person table)

Dealt to Hero A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Pot preflop $48, 4 players in

Flop 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets $20
Villian raises to $40
Hero calls (should I have raised here? My reasoning was that he was bluffing, didn't want to take him out yet and wanted to use his aggressiveness)

Turn 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks
Villain $204
Hero calls (pot is $536)

River...

Any comments appreciated. Is my line idiotic? Push the turn? Push the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

where's the raise preflop? are you in the blinds or not?

your flop bet is weak. u catch perfect turn, you have little over pot-bet left, spades, Q, J, 10 are bad river cards. U can eliminate getting outplayed on the river by pushing here.

what would he gain by overbetting the turn after you've shown weakness on every street up to now?

[Denutz]

Yup, I was a huge ball of quivering crap essentially. I never made a decision, just played it like a pussy.

Of course he had the flush, I called figuring why in god's name would he push with the flush. For what's it worth I raised to 3xbb preflop, 3 callers. I was in EP, he had position on me. Thanks for your thoughts. Overall gave this guy $2.5k last night. Another hand, he goes all-in for $950 in $60 pot. Called that one with tp. Fantastic.

[tewall]

I think it would help you to have an over plan in mind from the get go. In this particular case, for example, your stack is not that large compared to the blinds, less than 70 times BB. In this scenario, TPTK is good enough to commit all your chips to IMO. So the plan would be to play in a way which is most likely to get chips in. Betting 1/2 pot is a good way to do this, so your flop bet wasn't too bad (except 25 looks better than 20). You're hoping to get action, which you got. When you got raised on the flop, you need to re-raise because there's a lot of draws he could be semi-bluffing you with. Raising him 80 more seems about right.

If you call the flop, then you hope for a benign card on the turn that you can get all-in on. Checking the turn was fine, because you're hoping he'll bet, in which case you go all-in. Just calling the turn was very bad.

As to why he would push with the flush draw, the reason is he has two ways to win. He can hit his draw, or get you to fold. If you just call a player down in situations like this, you can't win. You have to make him pay for his draws. If he can beat TPTK with the stacks as small as they were (i.e. your stack small), then that's just the breaks. But make him pay to beat your TPTK hand. (If your stack were larger, then your caution would make more sense.)

On the river, it's a math problem. You say he pushed $750, but it's really only %544, because that's all you have left (assuming my math's correct). So you are risking $544 to gain $748 if you call. That's a little worse than 3 to 2. Basically if you think it's 50/50 or less he has the flush, you call.

Given how you were thinking at the time, you had to call. That's because you didn't think he would have been pushing with a flush draw.

The biggest problem was not having a plan from the beginning of the hand as to what you wanted to do. If you don't have a plan, you can't execute it. Just playing round by round without an idea of what you're trying to accomplish won't lead to good results. Even if you have the wrong plan (provided it's not rediculously wrong), you'll do better trying to execute that wrong plan than if you had no plan at all.

[lapoker17]

standard.