Aces cracking part deux...

#1 11-04-2005, 04:52 PM

Not a good day for me with bullets LOL...

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, CO raises, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 21.25 BB.

Scotch78 · #2 11-04-2005, 05:25 PM

Turn raise looks pretty bad to me. There's nothing for MP1 to be representing and two aggressors to bluff out, plus there was only one strong draw for him to cold-call the flop with. I'm thinking MP1 has at least trips a very high percentage of the time, but the pot's big enough I would probably call down in the hopes he has a horribly played overpair.

Scott

W. Deranged · #3 11-04-2005, 05:28 PM

I think MP1's turn raise smells like [censored]. I'm very wary of it.

With that said, that doesn't mean I don't think we should raise. But we should be raising this turn with the intent to fold to a three-bet. The presence of the intermediate guy makes me want to charge him. He may have 67 or something in which case I want his money in there now.

Raising and folding to a three-bet really sucks here, but in my opinion it's much better than calling down. The extra value more than makes up for the very rare occurance we get three-bet by an inferior hand and fold a winner.

lightw1thoutheat · #4 11-04-2005, 05:37 PM

hey,
I was CO in this hand, and was just about to post this hand.
What did you put me on?
I particularly liked the way i played it, but we can argue that at another point. I hoped that youd pay off a river raise with a big pair.
-light

thesharpie · #5 11-04-2005, 05:40 PM

Ducks? I can't think of any hand you played well.

HajiShirazu · #6 11-04-2005, 05:43 PM

MP1, if he had a set or trips, played his hand pretty well if he knows you are aggressive. I would immediately be suspicious on the turn looking at this action though. My first thought was "raise turn good" but now that I think about it, the guy cold called two on the drawless flop then bets the monster rainbow deuce on the turn. Sounds like he wanted to keep people in on the flop, then wanted you to raise him on the turn-could be being results oriented here though. CO's action doesn't worry me as much as the turn goes, I would put have him on a pocket pair or a five, however I guess he seemed to have a big hand given the river action. What on earth did he have though? Q8? QQ/55/22? I would say raise and fold to a 3-bet, but why throw away your 2-4 outs on this drawless board when you aren't a favorite to be ahead.

Nick C · #7 11-04-2005, 05:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hey,
I was CO in this hand, and was just about to post this hand.
What did you put me on?
I particularly liked the way i played it, but we can argue that at another point. I hoped that youd pay off a river raise with a big pair.
-light

[/ QUOTE ]

55? A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]? 98s? 87s?

Nick C · #8 11-04-2005, 05:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would say raise and fold to a 3-bet, but why throw away your 2-4 outs on this drawless board when you aren't a favorite to be ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the (not so remote) possibility that we have 4 clean outs versus 55 or 22 make a raise-fold turn line problematic.

Even if we just have 2 outs (which of course is also possible), those outs would be worth about 0.7-0.8 BBs at the time we'd be folding.

molawn2mo · #9 11-04-2005, 05:55 PM

Just another case of WE NEED READS."

Preface to say that I have not played 1 hand of 2/4 or lower poker in my life so my perspective is from 3/6 to 10/20.

If this were a good thinking opp then his line is easily readable as a bet/3 bet scenario because it is likely that the turn , if checked by him, will be bet by another allowing him to c/r and get in 2 bets.

That said... what hand does MP1 have that wants to get in 2 or 3 bets? PP or an 8.

For those of you, Will, that advocate a raise the turn line then I would think that you have to fold to a 3 bet.

If the turn goes bet, call, call followed by the river... bet, raise... hero has an easy fold here.

Unless you arae folding to a 3 turn bet, I do not like the idea of raising the turn arguing that CO is padding the pot because he very well may bail to the raise figuring his 77 or 99 is drawing to 2 outs at best.

My gut tells me that I would like to see the river and, if behind, have the opportunity to hit my 2 outer, rather than extracting value with a turn raise and
a. folding to a raise without having the chance to spike an ace.
b. folding to a turn bluff 3 bet.

#10 11-04-2005, 05:57 PM

I was struggling to put you on anything until the river light. On the turn I had MP1 with an 8, or with pocket ducks. I couldnt figure out why you were just calling. On the river, it was obvious you had at least the 8 with top kicker, but we both know that you had...