Weak fold with AKo?

Hi!

Recently I seem to be having a run of being dealt AKo, but it's a small sample size. Nevertheless, I keep running into problems with it.

Here I guess CO is raising a TP after cold-calling preflop. UTG+1 is cold-calling the flop-raise. So I think an A may not be an out. At that point I didn't have stats or reads on the opponents, because they were unknown to me. Nevertheless I thought at least CO was quite loose. Is a fold in that situation ok or is the pot big enough to peel one off? Is the backdoor-flush really worth a consideration here?

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(9 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds.

Regards,

Genz

EDIT: Typo.

[milesdyson]

peel, check fold turn unimproved.

yes the backdoor straight and flush draws are worth considering.

*grunch*

I would definitely call this bet and see the turn. The BDFD is a big consideration in this. UI on the turn I would c/f

[Aaron_]

Always consider the pot size. You're getting 12-to-1 to peel - count your likely outs and call if you're getting odds to do so.

[crovax4444]

Please note, UTG+1 is just checking/calling. You mentioned he's loose...I suspect a flush draw or possible middle pair. Plus, you have AK. Getting any A = good.

You have enough outs here to peel and see the turn

Remember, when you raise on the flop and fold to a raise, you're just asking people to take shots at you. If your going to do that, you might as well do it on the turn or river, not while the pot is small. I see your 15:1 to call the flop. That means you could have peeled with pretty much ANYTHING.

Peel and reevaluate on the turn you are getting 10.5:1. You have 3 outs with the A and the K discounted, 1 to 1.5 for the BDFD, and 1 for the BDSD. Conservatively, you have 5 outs which needs 8.5:1 immediate odds to peel one off. Your implied odds are even higher if you hit your flush or straight.

[Pyromaniac]

*grunch*

I think for one more SB I would call and close the flop action and see what the turn brings.

[ QUOTE ]
So I think an A may not be an out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't quite follow this. Why is this?

I read the CO raise as him using position to try to make it expensive to chase a draw-y board...although the raise doesn't really make the odds terribly bad here in limit. If anyone was going to bail, I'd expect UTG+1 to do so.

Plus, a CO raise might be designed to buy a free card on the turn if it slows down UTG+1 and you. I imagine he expected you to call/raise, not fold, after betting out on the flop.

[gopnik]

got to call the flop raise, you have a bdfd. I usually fold the turn UI.

Easy fold. You played it right PF, just got outdrawn. I'm sure your up against AJ, and a big flush draw here.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy fold. You played it right PF, just got outdrawn. I'm sure your up against AJ, and a big flush draw here.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is terrible on so many levels I'm going to have trouble counting them.

One, it's not an "easy" fold. In fact, I'd say it would be a "terrible" fold. Barring EVERYTHING else, Hero is getting 12:1 from the pot, closing the action and has two overcards and two strong backdoor draws. Maximum discounting of his outs puts us around 1.5 for each of 4 draws, giving him 6 outs, two more than he needs to see one more card getting 12:1.

Two, preflop play was good...you got that part right.

Three, unless your psychic, you have no way of knowing Hero got outdrawn. Period.

Four, "I'm sure your [sic] up against AJ...." WTF? Even if he's up against AJ, he's got four outs for his kings, which is enough to peel. If somebody's got top pair, ONE of Hero's two overcards is still live. The only way he's in trouble is if one of them has an ace and matched his kicker and the other has a king and matched his kicker, and even then he's got runner-runner ace-king outs.

Finally, five, in a big pot, folding overcards to a possible flush DRAW is insane. Hero HAS a flush draw, and there's only one bigger one possible.

(breathe, Boz, breathe....)