Did I underestimate the flush here?

#1 11-01-2005, 11:41 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP1 (t1240)
MP2 (t1460)
CO (t1440)
Hero (t3050)
SB (t1890)
BB (t1420)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, UTG+1 raises to t40, MP1 calls t40, 1 fold, CO calls t40, Hero calls t40, SB calls t30, BB raises to t120, UTG calls t100, UTG+1 calls t80, MP1 folds, CO calls t80, Hero calls t80, SB calls t80.

Flop: (t760) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets t120, UTG calls t120, UTG+1 calls t120, CO folds, Hero raises to t2930, SB folds, BB calls t1180 (All-In), UTG calls t1260 (All-In), UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (t6490) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t6490) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t6490

I have to admit that after the flop I realized there was a flush draw on the board so I went all in to discourage any further action but was still called. I am unsure of how to play these specific hands where I hold the best hand at the moment and am discouraging a flush draw. Any advice would be appreciated.

#2 11-01-2005, 11:46 PM

You got all your money in with the best of it. If other players want to make an unprofitable call and chase a flush draw, more often than not they will lose money (although with the pot on the flop, they were probably getting pretty good odds, ESPECIALLY UTG). If you would have raised to 750 lets say, and 3 people called and the turn came with the flush card, would you fold it then?

No way I would, not with those odds.

#3 11-01-2005, 11:48 PM

I hope you don't get flamed for this, but don't count on it.

I'll try to explain nicely: you aren't trying to discourage the flush draw. You want your opponents to call with their draws, as long they aren't getting the right odds. When they make bad calls, you make my money. It is ok that they will hit sometimes. You got all in with the best hand, that's all you can ask for. What are you thinking you should have done, called the flop and then fold when a club comes on the turn? You'd probably have the odds to draw to a boat at that point anyway.

This is a bad beat post- don't post a hand like this again.

#4 11-01-2005, 11:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you don't get flamed for this, but don't count on it.

I'll try to explain nicely: you aren't trying to discourage the flush draw. You want your opponents to call with their draws, as long they aren't getting the right odds. When they make bad calls, you make my money. It is ok that they will hit sometimes. You got all in with the best hand, that's all you can ask for. What are you thinking you should have done, called the flop and then fold when a club comes on the turn? You'd probably have the odds to draw to a boat at that point anyway.

This is a bad beat post- don't post a hand like this again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well since you put it that way I think I did look at this the wrong way. However, it should be noted that I had no intention of posting bad beats but rather a question on how to handle these types of hands that are characterized by the hand posted above.

#5 11-01-2005, 11:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Well since you put it that way I think I did look at this the wrong way. However, it should be noted that I had no intention of posting bad beats but rather a question on how to handle these types of hands that are characterized by the hand posted above.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason you think you handled this badly is because the guy drew out on you, that's what makes it a bad beat post. Any time you got all your money in when you knew you had the best hand, you succeeded. The way to handle these situations is to bet the most your opponents will call, provided that the bet is large enough that they do not have the proper odds, express or implied, to draw. That's all there is to it.

#6 11-02-2005, 12:00 AM

With 6 people to the flop for 6x the bb, it is obvious that the table is incredibly loose, and to hit a set on top of it, you are going to get action there, and not only that, they are getting the right price even if they don't know it. Never feel bad about getting all your money in with the best of it, that is what you want to do.

If you find yourselves in these situations this often, you are either playing for nothing, or against people who think they are playing for nothing. That action is very loose even for a 1 buck tourney, if this type of situation happens again, don't fear a flush, be happy you have the best hand and try to get max value out of it.

Sam T. · #7 11-02-2005, 12:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope you don't get flamed for this, but don't count on it.

I'll try to explain nicely: you aren't trying to discourage the flush draw. You want your opponents to call with their draws, as long they aren't getting the right odds. When they make bad calls, you make my money. It is ok that they will hit sometimes. You got all in with the best hand, that's all you can ask for. What are you thinking you should have done, called the flop and then fold when a club comes on the turn? You'd probably have the odds to draw to a boat at that point anyway.

This is a bad beat post- don't post a hand like this again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well since you put it that way I think I did look at this the wrong way. However, it should be noted that I had no intention of posting bad beats but rather a question on how to handle these types of hands that are characterized by the hand posted above.

[/ QUOTE ]

You handled it just right. You can't lay down a hand everytime someone is drawing against you. All you can do is give them the wrong odds to do so. In this case, you offered him lousy odds, and he accepted. That's wonderful 2/3 of the time, not so wonderful 1/3 of the time. The only thing you should consider next time is rivering the boat. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Hang in there, bro.

Sam

#8 11-02-2005, 01:57 AM

To be fair, pot was 1120 before hero's push, bb was risking 1180 to win 2300, and UTG was risking 1260 to win 3560. BB wasn't getting good odds on a flush if he was the one chasing it, but UTG certainly was getting close to it if he was chasing the flush.