Long Post: Analyzing Tilt

Borodog · #1 10-27-2005, 12:51 PM

This is a long post containing 8 hands from a wickedly harsh session last night, over which I won 11 hands in 254 (4%). I don't expect detailed analysis of each hand; none of these hands is particularly earth-shatteringly interesting. Some may not even be poorly played. I find myself making systematic sorts of errors when I'm getting beat up and stop playing what I consider to be my "A" game. Identifying these errors so that I can catch them before I make them would help a lot when my cards are running cold--I'm losing a lot more than I should when the deck is pounding me in the ass. It's easy to say, "Take a break, stop playing if you're not playing your best," but I'd like to avoid getting into that situation.

If you see anything that looks like something you do when tilting, I'd like to hear that as well.

I've included reads where I could recall them.

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Hand 1 - This hand is typical of about two dozen where I would raise AK/AQ/AJ/KQ type hands, miss the flop and follow through on both the flop and the turn against a single opponent, only to run into a turn raise or checkraise. Should I be free-carding these more in position at $5-$10 than $2-$4/$3-$6? A turn check seems to lead to an inevitable river bet from your opponent. After enough of these I find myself becoming paranoid that I'm being floated or check-raised with air. This was the main source of tilt for the night.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (3.70 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.70 BB

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Hand 2 - Which leads to this kind of thing . . .

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 5 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

River: (8.70 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

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Hand 3 - Check-raise paranoia strikes.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 6 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

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Hand 4 This is a blind war with a tight VERY aggressive post-flop player.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
8 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

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Hand 5 - Villain is slightly LAGgy. Hero is a weenie. 3-bet preflop, lead the flop?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.70 BB

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Hand 6 - Villain was like 17-7-0.76.
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, CO folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (6.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.70 BB

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Hand 7 - Villain is TAG. Normally I cap this pre-flop 100% of the time, but I'd just read a post about not capping AKo OOP vs. a TAG with a narrow 3-betting range. This guy's PFR was under 7.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, 6 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.70 BB

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Hand 8 - Villain is TAG. Frustration really obvious.
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $5.
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 1 fold, Hero (poster) 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (13.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

BigBrother · #2 10-27-2005, 01:23 PM

A couple opinions:

Hand 5:

Preflop, if you can't 3-bet it, muck it. Cold-Calling just encourages the blinds to come in and destroy your odds. It's the work of the Devil, reserved for pots that are already hellishly large by the time action gets to you.

Go with your read on whether you want to take this guy on heads-up, but with position you are usually against overcards and should show a profit.

Hand 6: If you can't call that river bet, you should fold the flop instead of raise it. Your Turn check-behind will induce a bet from even passive players.

Nick C · #3 10-27-2005, 01:39 PM

Hand 1: This seems all right. He may have a draw but probably has better than just a draw. This is a board that hits limpers better than raisers, unfortunately.

Hand 2: When I'm feeling suspicious, I tend to start calling down instead of popping the turn, like you did. The turn raise has more folding equity (than calling would) but unfortunately didn't work this time. Your opponent was probably a little surprised not to see AK, though, after the line you took. So maybe that's some consolation.

Hand 3: In my opinion, the turn isn't as bad as you may think. Unless SB has a hand like A6/K6 or an improbable flush draw, either you or your opponent is probably drawing to two outs. And there's not really a whole lot for SB to be betting on the flop. So, while I'd expect a checkraise from a queen on the flop, I'm certainly not ruling out trips on the turn.

I do think you should probably bet the turn, but the situation becomes a little awkward if people have been seeing you bet-fold a lot. Under the circumstances, I think I'd be more inclined to bet-call here than bet-fold.

Hand 4: This looks good.

Hand 5: Yuck. Versus this opponent, I like the preflop 3-bet, flop lead (or raise) line you mention.

That said, given how preflop and the flop actually went, I think the turn fold is probably best, in this small pot.

Hand 6: I don't really understand the flop raise. I'd probably just fold. Another possibility would be to represent the king (well, sort of, anyway) by calling and then see if BB wants to fire again on the turn. In any event, this hand does seem ugly to me. The river fold is pretty inconsistent with your flop and turn plays, but my guess is that you decided halfway through the hand that you should have just folded the flop.

Hand 7: I might actually check-call the flop and then donk the turn, just to try to be confusing. Check-call, check-call, bet is a possible line too, but I'm not sure that it's an ideal line for when your AK hits TPTK (although you are in fact in a WA/WB situation), since your hand is so good. But you're not going to get a lot of action out of QQ/JJ, usually, no matter what you do.

Unfortunately, it looks like you ran into AA or another AK (or possibly even the case kings). Calling down after the turn raise seems sensible to me.

Hand 8: I would probably just start calling down when I got led into again on the turn.

I can sort of get a feel for what you were going through, and I'm not confident about all the advice I gave either. Hopefully some other people will also chime in.

Borodog · #4 10-27-2005, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A couple opinions:

Hand 5:

Preflop, if you can't 3-bet it, muck it. Cold-Calling just encourages the blinds to come in and destroy your odds. It's the work of the Devil, reserved for pots that are already hellishly large by the time action gets to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I hated the cc as soon as I clicked it and then froze on the flop, whcih I think I should have raised. Given my bad play up to this point, I'm fine with the turn fold.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 6: If you can't call that river bet, you should fold the flop instead of raise it. Your Turn check-behind will induce a bet from even passive players.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn raise was pure frustration; I can't have been outflopped again. This was a clear fold on the flop. There is little chance that this guy is going to call 3 cold and then bet on the flop without my Tens being beaten. I gave up the hand mentally a split second too late (i.e. after raising).

Thank you for your thoughts.

Borodog · #5 10-27-2005, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 6: I don't really understand the flop raise. I'd probably just fold. Another possibility would be to represent the king (well, sort of, anyway) by calling and then see if BB wants to fire again on the turn. In any event, this hand does seem ugly to me. The river fold is pretty inconsistent with your flop and turn plays, but my guess is that you decided halfway through the hand that you should have just folded the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 8: I would probably just start calling down when I got led into again on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the call down. But once I raised and got 3-bet, is the a fold? All I could think of is "I'd hate to lay down to A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Kx."

[ QUOTE ]
I can sort of get a feel for what you were going through, and I'm not confident about all the advice I gave either. Hopefully some other people will also chime in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your time and thoughts, Nick.

Nick C · #6 10-27-2005, 02:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 8: I would probably just start calling down when I got led into again on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the call down. But once I raised and got 3-bet, is the a fold? All I could think of is "I'd hate to lay down to A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Kx."

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what's best once you get 3-bet, but I'd be thinking about A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Kx, too. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't fold.

Mister Z · #7 10-27-2005, 03:12 PM

Watching this series of events is cracking me up b/c I've had so many sessions like this lately.

Hand 1: I wouldn't mind a turn check here unless you have significant evidence that villain is peeling the flop. The board on the flop is pretty disjointed and makes me think villain has a piece of the board. Unless I connect I'll probably fold to a river bet.

Hand 2: Hey sometimes you gotta give it the old college try right? Oh well, next hand.

Hand 3: I'm betting this turn. Mid PP's might call you down and you gotta charge a flush draw. I'll probably call down a C/R on this turn as well.

Hand 4: I think you played this fine

Hand 5: I'm sure you usually play this differently. Easy re-raise or fold pf. Raise the flop.

Hand 6: Now you're confusing me. I think I would bet the turn, folding to a C/R. If he's a total calling station I'll bet the river but if he's decent and called the turn bet I'd check the river.

eta: This is the line I would take had I raised the flop. Folding makes much more sense seeing as BB bet into a field of players.

Hand 7: I'm not really taking issue with anything here.

Hand 8: This is a pretty good time to call down from the turn IMO. This would keep a hand you beat betting and avoids the ugly 3-bet on the turn. You might be better off folding to the 3-bet here. You've shown plenty of strenght and villain is saying he can beat top pair or an over pair.

BigEndian · #8 10-27-2005, 03:14 PM

Between hand 1 and hand 2, I do this now and then. Immediately after I do, I sometimes acknowledge to myself that I'm getting flaky. Sometimes I don't catch myself but I feel I'm getting better at it.

Nothing to say other than be aware and realize your frame of mind is leaning to tilt. Most of the time, by far, people are not taking shots at you. But you do go on long runs of cards where you simply miss the flop.

- Jim

BigEndian · #9 10-27-2005, 03:17 PM

Hand 3 you would have been better off calling down if you were going to check the turn. Calling down with position and not putting in further raises in this kind of situation is a good deterant for people who might take shots at you. Especially if they can lay a hand down if you raise.

Hand 4: fine.

Hand 5: Yuck. Another good spot for a call-down line. 3-betting PF is fine, arguably preferable since you can take the lead and bet in the flop is broadway. But against a semi-laggy player, let them do the betting for you and be embarrased when they flip QJo and you pulled their pants down with 88.

- Jim

BigEndian · #10 10-27-2005, 03:22 PM

Hand 6: Edit, I misread where the action came from. Easy fold on the flop.

Hand 7: C/C, C/C, B/CorF depending.

Hand 8: I think I would have just called down on the donk turn bet. I would have also likely raised when bet into if the fourth club came.

- Jim