Queen high

[sfer]

10 handed online game. UTG+2 raises, very loose and erratic donkey coldcalls immediately behind, folds to me in the SB and I call with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], BB calls. 4 players, 8 SBs.

Flop is K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, donkey bets, I checkraise. Wha???

[hobbsmann]

I kind of like it. You are probably clearing up Q/J outs from UTG2 and combined with your gutshot you have betwen 4 and 10ish outs given that erractic donkey could be betting here with any pair or even air. My question is if you get this heads up and the turn blanks what is the plan?

[W. Deranged]

Reasons why this is not too bad an idea:

1. UTG+2 very likely has a better hand than you, but by checking he has indicated he doesn't like the flop (or he wants to check-raise, but that seems unlikely in next-to-last position on the flop). Check-raising will encourage him to fold and make a big fundamental theorem mistake.

2. You have like 5.5 clean outs here from the gutshot and the BDFD. Since the donkey is in fact a donkey, you may well have pair outs against him, but they are often dirted by either the BB or the pre-flop raiser. Betting will often increase your outs to as many as 13.5.

3. Since the donkey is a donkey, you may have him beat. He likely would bet anything if checked to here, and could even have something you dominate like QT or JT, or even worse.

4. If donkey has missed the flop, but has something better like AT, check-raising now might allow you to get him to fold a better hand on a later street.

5. You probably have to call one bet anyway in a 9 bet pot with 5.5 outs, and check-raising likely increases your equity.

6. The donkey may pay you off big if you hit. (Note, this isn't contradictory to #4; the donkey is erratic, meaning there's a decent chance he might make a bad fold at some point AND that he'll freak out and pay off big when you hit. Since we have good poker skill, we should be able to take maximum advantage of both situations.)

And so on and so forth, as long as they both shall live.

Since you have decent equity in a biggish pot, I can't see this as being that bad ever. Sometimes, it works out great. It's basically a kind of implicit collusion thing, with the donkey as your unwitting accomplice.

[toss]

I wonder when I'll be capable of making plays like these.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder when I'll be capable of making plays like these.

[/ QUOTE ]

I make them quite often. Difference is, I'm rarely thinking about all the stuff W.D. mentioned when I do. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Yako]

Just buy a dog and keep it around your pc so it can leap at oppurtune moments [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]