When to abandon odds chart and start using judgment?

I've been using the ohgeetee odds chart as an aid for the last 3000 hands or so... does anybody have any recommendation when i should abandon it and start using my judgment?

IS this a preflop chart? Link?

[detruncate]

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I've been using the ohgeetee odds chart as an aid for the last 3000 hands or so... does anybody have any recommendation when i should abandon it and start using my judgment?

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How about now. Like right this minute. Or tomorrow would be ok. Maybe next week?

It's not an either or thing. Learn how to evaluate hand strength in the context of individual hands and you'll find yourself relying less on charts.

That paricular one comes from SSH in case you didn't realize, and included in the book is an excellent section on how to evaluate pf hand strength.

Best of luck and happy pokering.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...14&fpart=1

[Aaron W.]

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I've been using the ohgeetee odds chart as an aid for the last 3000 hands or so... does anybody have any recommendation when i should abandon it and start using my judgment?

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The odds never change. The idea of using judgment is in terms of not calculating the pot odds every time and knowing that the pot is 'big enough' to chase or 'not big enough' to chase. As you play more, you begin to develop the skill of parlaying a few possibilities together and determining the right play:

1) I'm ahead sometimes - he could be on a draw
2) When I'm behind, I've got an average of so many outs
3) I expect villain will give me some action when I get my hand, improving my implied odds
4) I don't expect trouble from any of the other players (no LAG to mess things up)
5) The pot is about right to chase

I don't ever really look at pot odds beyond just a quick estimate. I know I need "about 8:1" for 5 outs and the pot size"about 8" bets. I don't care so much about the .2 after the 8, or the fact that the pot is actually 7.75 SB because of the rake because of these other factors which weigh into the situation. If #1 stands out as a definite possibility, I'm going to call even if the pot "isn't quite big enough" for my outs. If #3 isn't going to happen (weak tight opponent), I'm less likely to chase if the pot is "a little short".

But I've only really gotten to this point by running lots of numerical examples of situations and really developing the right intuition for the give and take of estimating outs.

[DavidC]

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the ohgeetee odds chart as

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I don't think this is an odds chart.

You should abandon an odds chart any time in which you:

a) Can change your hole cards at will
b) Can change the board cards at will
c) Can change your opponents' cards at will
d) Think you can get your opponent to fold / induce greater action on a later street if you hit (and then you should still compare this to your odds chart).

For the preflop chart, the answer's easy:

Deviate from the chart every time it's wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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For me, it was something like this:

I'd post a hand. People would tell me to raise with KQo utg, or AJo or ATs or something. I'd say, "Dude, that's not on the chart." and they'd politely respond, "Do it."

Edit: A major feature of this was opening with a raise and making isolation plays.

I did it. It seemed to work. A couple thousand posts later I started to figure out why I was doing some of the things I was doing... sorta. Still getting there.

--Dave.

[TomBrooks]

Why would you abandon the odds chart?

[SlantNGo]

So you can use DIPO [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[aces_dad]

You should never 'abandon' an odds chart. It does imply we have the worst of it at the moment which isn't always the case, and doesn't consider implied odds, so it should simply be one tool to make decisions not the decision maker itself.

Aaron's post on how it is simply used as one tool, combined with other inputs, is a very good recommendation.