semi bluff check raising

Spicymoose · #1 10-14-2005, 12:56 PM

I am trying to do more of this now. Villain here is 20/10/3.5 after 120.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero raises, MP folds.

Final Pot: 6 BB

Given that we are heads up, I think I check raise this on just about any turn, but the fact that I connected (and have a ton more if I am behind) makes me so much more inclined to do so.

Jeff W · #2 10-14-2005, 01:17 PM

This isn't really a semi-bluff. I don't see him folding many better hands. 99/88 have a gutshot and TT-99, if not 88 probably raise pre flop.

I still like it, but I'd have check-raised the flop.

Spicymoose · #3 10-14-2005, 01:21 PM

You don't think I get people holding a jack to fold sometimes? As to the flop check raise, do you do this only given that the two other opponents folded, or do you do it regardless of how many people there are (more people, more equity, so more for value rather than fold equity). Given that it was heads up, after the flop check raise, what do you do when the turn is blank? Bet the turn, check/fold the river UI?

Jeff W · #4 10-14-2005, 01:23 PM

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You don't think I get people holding a jack to fold sometimes?

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Nope.

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As to the flop check raise, do you do this only given that the two other opponents folded.

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Yep.

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Bet the turn, check/fold the river UI?

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Yep.

aba20 · #5 10-14-2005, 01:50 PM

Do you ever lead here? I usually do and if I get on caller I bet the turn and would check fold the river unimproved. How this hand played out with a 7 on the turn I would bet every street.

cartman · #6 10-14-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am trying to do more of this now.

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This particular hand is different because you made a pair on the turn, but if by "this" you mean semi-bluff checkraising the turn, you would probably be well advised to change more to less and even better advised to change more to none.

Cartman

Spicymoose · #7 10-14-2005, 02:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am trying to do more of this now.

[/ QUOTE ]

This particular hand is different because you made a pair on the turn, but if by "this" you mean semi-bluff checkraising the turn, you would probably be well advised to change more to less and even better advised to change more to none.

Cartman

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I barely ever do this, and just started trying to find spots where it was appropriate. I was under the impression that if you had an opponent who knew how to fold, and if you had a hand with a decent amount of outs, if the pot was the right size, and the opponent isn't all that likely to have a great hand (but still have you beat), it could be ok.

For example, in this hand, if I hadn't connected with my 7, would the check raise be wrong? I think he could fold overcards, a weak pair, or some other random holding that beats my 7 high. If I don't get him to fold, I still win about 20% of the time.

Intent · #8 10-14-2005, 02:11 PM

But you're putting in 2 bets to win a grand total of 6. He needs to fold 1/3 of the time for that move to work. I think he folds a J there never, and if he's playing 88, 99 or TT strangly, there's a pretty good chance he calls it down. He does fold unimproved overs there, probably - but oh wait, you're already beating them.

Since everyone ran for the hills on the flop, I like a flop CR much better.

cartman · #9 10-14-2005, 02:23 PM

You are correct that if the combination of the pot size, your number of outs, and the probablility of him folding sometimes make this play correct. It is highly dependent on the likelihood of him folding immediately to your checkraise however. Even with a quality draw like open-ended or a 4-flush you are only going to make your draw less either 17% or 20% of the time and a pair that may not even be good about 13% of the time. Especially when you consider that you will usually have to fire another barrel on the river when you completely miss and often pay off a better hand when you do river a pair, that makes for a pretty expensive undertaking if he doesn't fold enough on the turn.

Especially at 5/10 and below, I think you will very rarely find the conditions sufficient to justify a turn semi-bluff checkraise. Of course and as always I could be dead wrong.

Cartman

witeknite · #10 10-14-2005, 04:28 PM

I think you are right cartman. I rarely see a fold to a c/r, semi-bluff or otherwise, on the turn. If they do fold, they were probably bluffing when they bet the turn to begin with.

WiteKnite