Fun with Bondage and KJo--Foxwoods 10/20

[W. Deranged]

All right, so I got my ass thoroughly kicked this weekend at Foxwoods, but I played this interesting hand.

SB is a loose passive fishy type, who calls down on longshots when she has a good feeling about them, but generally does not get aggressive post-flop until others have shown weakness.

EP1 is a nitty passive type who always seems kind of aghast when people show down there hands. She likely has no concept of odds and folds way too much.

Deranged is in the Hijack with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Pre-flop: Two EP players limp, others fold, Deranged raises, some players fold, SB calls, BB folds, limpers call.

Four to the flop for 9 SB.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

SB bets, EP1 calls, EP2 folds, Deranged...

What am I doing and what do I intend to do on the turn?

I'll follow up with more based on the turn action.

[shant]

I don't see much reason to raise so call and raise a blankish turn.

I'd raise the flop. If he's passive, he won't 3-bet the flop with the nut flush draw. He will with 2 pair or better, though. You might even be able to freeze up an AJ. If he 3-bets, strongly consider folding the turn. I think the flop is the best time to find out where you are at, though.

[bnorthro]

I think I like calling and raising a safe turn (no [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q, 10, 7). Raising now probably won't protect your hand, and you probably don't have a whole lot of an edge (lots of cards can kill your hand).

I like calling, reevaluate on the turn.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see much reason to raise so call and raise a blankish turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should call, intending to raise a turn that doesn't complete a straight, bring a third club or a nasty ace.

This seems to be a perfect example of waiting a street for better equity. If a bad card hits I think I'm calling down a bet on the turn and river and folding if there's a raise.

[W. Deranged]

All right, so we're pretty much all on the same page. Relative position and the nature of the board means this is a pretty clear "wait until the turn situation."

So I call the flop.

The reason I added the "bondage" part in the title is because this type of hand makes me feel "handcuffed." I can't protect my hand at all because of the position. The board is really dangerous, and yet I can't reasonably just fold. So I'm stuck having to call, and that's all.

Now it gets interesting:

Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

(Board now read J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and there are 6 BB in the pot).

SB bets, EP1 calls, now what do I do, and what's my plan on the river?

[BigEndian]

I would raise this flop. Unless the SB is so passive that she won't bet into three players including a PF aggressor without something big.

On the turn, I think you're betting all cards with the intentions of folding to a raise.


This hand seems pretty straight-forward, am I over-looking something?

- Jim

I originally advised calling down in this situation, but I think I'm happier putting in a raise for a free showdown. A 3-bet seals your certain doom - after all you only have top pair here, nothing like a straight that has good showdown value.

If you get donked on the river after putting in the raise, I probably fold. But the turn raise is good because it charges the players on the straight draw and perhaps the SB if he has jack/weaker kicker/weaker pair.

If your raise goes through with no problems I might bet the river if it doesn't complete the straight or put out a fourth club. Depends on your read of the players, which is why I love live games.

[BigEndian]

The reason to raise the flop is you are pretty sure you have the best hand and want to raise for value. It also helps define your hand to play it accordingly on future streets.

- Jim