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#1
10-13-2005, 12:46 AM
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Build third with installment plan?
Would you play third the same, or would you raise right away? The table was more passive than most.
7 Card Stud ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (hand converter) 3rd Street - (0.70 SB) Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls___folds Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___raises Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes___calls Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls___calls Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds 4th Street - (9.70 SB) Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls 5th Street - (7.85 BB) Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises (all-in) Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds 6th Street - (10.85 BB) Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___all-in Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] River - (10.85 BB) Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___all-in Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Total pot: (10.85 BB) 
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#2
10-13-2005, 11:54 AM
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Re: Build third with installment plan?
I'd raise 3rd right away. In addition to having great equity most likely, it makes it more likely that everyone folds if you pair your jack or even catch an ace. Even though these occurences are relatively rare, they can add a decent amount to your value with the hand.
Everything else looks perfect/standard.
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#3
10-13-2005, 11:58 AM
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Re: Build third with installment plan?
I think this limp reraise stuff on 3rd is WAY overused on these boards lately. Your hand plays well multiway, but it's also fine headsup. If you eliminate people, you are more likely to win if you make a pair. If you don't, it's much more likely you will have to complete a straight or flush to win. The best part is, raising really can't be wrong here...if you get tons of action with people calling or raising again and have a big multiway pot, that's fine. If you get it headsup or 3-way, that's good too. But, I think raising this straight off is far better than the limp reraise that seems to be all the rage on these boards.
Jeff
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#4
10-13-2005, 12:02 PM
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Re: Build third with installment plan?
Seems fine - you've obviously decided you want to play the hand multiway rather than heads-up, so your line is good - you want money in the pot here.
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#5
10-13-2005, 12:26 PM
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Re: Build third with installment plan?
[ QUOTE ]
Seems fine - you've obviously decided you want to play the hand multiway rather than heads-up, so your line is good - you want money in the pot here. [/ QUOTE ] What about that choice "seems fine"? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#6
10-13-2005, 12:40 PM
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Re: Build third with installment plan?
I think that the choice is fine, because the hand, although pretty, is a dog heads-up against a pair of queens (about 58-42 with a low kicker and no diamonds, 65-35 with AQ of diamonds in the hole). Also there are a number of possibilities that are hard to get away from heads up - if you catch a 10, J, Q or A on fourth - for example.
Against four players, you are likely to have more than 25% equity, and you are more likely to know by fifth street where you are with the hand - if you don't catch a queen or a diamond or a king, you'll probably be gone. I would be much more likely to try and get this heads-up with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I think the line chosen is good for a multi-way pot, and I think the hand is better played that way. Flush draws with one overcard are, generally, fine to call a completion with, but not great for reraising to get heads-up, in my opinion.
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#7
10-13-2005, 12:41 PM
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Re: Build third with installment plan?
I think that the choice is fine, because the hand, although pretty, is a dog heads-up against a pair of queens (about 58-42 with a low kicker and no diamonds, 65-35 with AQ of diamonds in the hole). Also there are a number of possibilities that are hard to get away from heads up - if you catch a 10, J, Q or A on fourth - for example.
Against four players, you are likely to have more than 25% equity, and you are more likely to know by fifth street where you are with the hand - if you don't catch a queen or a diamond or a king, you'll probably be gone. I would be much more likely to try and get this heads-up with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I think the line chosen is good for a multi-way pot, and I think the hand is better played that way. It may be best simply to call, as the straight potential is not good if you put the initial raiser on queens. Flush draws with one overcard are, generally, fine to call a completion with, but not great for reraising just to get heads-up, in my opinion.
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#8
10-13-2005, 02:05 PM
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Re: Build third with installment plan?
This is all true, but you are forgetting that you can’t know whether or not the queens will play. When the action gets to you on 3rd, all you know is that two very dead up cards limped.
Your hand probably has more than 33% equity against those two tens on average, so you want to complete. Also, you would much prefer that the queen doesn’t play; this will often enable you to steal the pot with a semi-bluff on 4th or 5th and generally makes the hand easier to play. To stream: I don’t like the LRR much either. What if the queen folds? Well, you didn’t exploit you equity edge. Also, completing with 3-flushes is probably the single most important way to add deception to your game. If instead you start LRRing with them but not with aces or rolled trips, you are giving away too much information imo. Not to say you shouldn’t do it once in a while.
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#10
10-13-2005, 06:46 PM
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Re: Build third with installment plan?
how much more do you want to make?? the only other thing you can do here is call on fourth but thats it.
Pat
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