QQ river value bet/Missed CR/AA meets resistance

WalkAmongUs · #1 10-13-2005, 07:35 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, 6 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

I think I could have value bet this river since I didn't get popped on the turn. Thoughts?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB folds, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

River: (10 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

I went for the CR because there were aggressive donkeys behind me; missed it and then just called the river hoping to get the overcalls. Good idea or bad?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, 7 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (20.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 23.25 BB

Donked turn bet...should I have known something was up?

#2 10-13-2005, 07:48 AM

Grunching…

Hand 1: I would definitely bet the river for value and to protect it to the end. Yeah, the str8 could be out there, but it would've been a gutshot for at best to the 9. The checks on the river from the UTGs confirm that you should have bet. If one of them had bet the turn when the 8 fell I would call it and see what the river held.

Hand 2: I say bet the turn. Even if villain made trip queens you've got the boat…bet to the river. Your turn check was a sign of weakness.

Hand 3: Very confusing hand. Since the UTGs were so aggressive I like the river call. Pot is huge and worth seeing one more bet.

#3 10-13-2005, 08:01 AM

1. Bet the river
2. Bet the turn
3. I dont 3-bet on the turn; I am not sure if its a mistake to fold on the turn. If UTG is passive or not a total donk I think you can safely fold the turn.
edit: raise the flop in hand 3.

silencio · #4 10-13-2005, 08:07 AM

As others are probably going to say, reads are important.

Hand 1 - Since this is 2/4 and your 2 villains on the river are both UTG and UTG+1 I guess they would not limp in with crap. I would put at least one of them on a busted flush draw with 2 face cards. What you really are afraid from is the other one having either 77-88. Both of these holdings will prabably wait for a safe river card before raising you. Again, this is very read dependent. I believe against unknows I would have checked.

Hand2 - I think betting the turn is good here. If you are raised, a guy with a trip of queens will at least call you down. The pot is getting big enough I think. You don't want to give a 77 or 88 a free card.

Hand 3 - You hold Ah , I think I am raising the flop.

@bsolute_luck · #5 10-13-2005, 08:32 AM

bad case of FPS cost you a lot.

hand #2: why go for a c/r when if someone has trip Queens, they could easily c/r you and you can 3-bet.

hand #3: you have to raise that flop for protection as well as value.

imported_The Vibesman · #6 10-13-2005, 08:37 AM

Hand 1: Bet the river.
Hand 2: Just bet the turn. You raised the flop, no matter how aggressive your opponents are the tendency will be to check. You're giving a free card to flush draws.

Hand 3: Must raise flop. Turn and river is tough w/o reads, but I'd be inclined to play it the same way. When the turn gets capped I'd say you're beat by UTG, but I'm probably overcalling on the river for the size of the pot.

WalkAmongUs · #7 10-13-2005, 08:43 AM

Hand 1: I feel like I should have bet on the river and called a raise.

Results oriented thinking would say I got the most out of hand number 2, since it appears a Q probably wasn't out, however, I should have bet this. Since the check-raise failed though, I believe a call on the river to induce overcalls was correct. What do you guys think about that?

Hand 3: I think I did raise the flop but don't have my pokertracker with me to check. If I didn't, well then theres an example of why multitabling can decrease your win rate.

@bsolute_luck · #8 10-13-2005, 08:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You're giving a free card to flush draws.

[/ QUOTE ] you know this doesn't matter at this point and we actually hope they hit their flush right [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]? which is why it is even more important to bet this turn because missed draws aren't paying off on the river, but they will here.

imported_The Vibesman · #9 10-13-2005, 08:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're giving a free card to flush draws.

[/ QUOTE ] you know this doesn't matter at this point and we actually hope they hit their flush right [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]? which is why it is even more important to bet this turn because missed draws aren't paying off on the river, but they will here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow it's early. What am I doing up?

I'll shut up now.