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#1
10-08-2005, 03:08 PM
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Raise flop or wait for turn?
Sorry, this was at a Crypto 6 max table, so I have to type it in myself. All villians are a little loose, like 35VPIP and, pretty poor post flop. I'm basically running over the table at this point.
So here goes. I'm dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP UTG Raises, I call, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls Flop (8 small bets): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG Bets, Hero??? Should I raise here to protect against the flush, but maybe blow out the blinds, or go for overcalls and raise a non heart turn? Thanks 
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#2
10-08-2005, 03:14 PM
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Re: Raise flop or wait for turn?
Raise. Make bad draws pay. You may not get bet into again on the turn.
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#3
10-08-2005, 03:15 PM
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Re: Raise flop or wait for turn?
A lot of times I 3bet preflop if raisor has high PFR and people behind me are reasonably tight. Definitely raise the flop to protect against gutshots. You can't protect against a flush draw so just worry about extracting the max from one. If you raise the flop , PFR can 3bet with a flush draw, queen, or overpair and you can cap or call and raise the turn. Sb and BB can call 2 with a lot of the hands they'd call one with. Also as spicy mentioned, you might not get bet into on the turn.
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#5
10-08-2005, 03:28 PM
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Re: Raise flop or wait for turn?
I was playing 3 tables at once, with lots of overlap, and the PFRer hadn't raised much, so I decided to call the flop. I normally 3 bet preflop if the guy's raising a bunch, or if it's from a later position, like a possible steal.
As it was, I raised and blew out the field and led out on the next 2 streets. Just wanted some feedback and opinions. Thanks.
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#6
10-08-2005, 03:35 PM
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Re: Raise flop or wait for turn?
If you 3-bet preflop, you could bet/raise on the flop. Since you just cold called, you should now just call on the flop and see what the action is back to you. Considering you weren't the PFR, you don't want to reveal your hand this early. Let them make their plays on the flop and charge them all later.
Your flop raise isn't going to stop a draw from getting there on the turn. You're just looking to make the max long term EV on the hand. Middle set doesn't need to raise this flop for protection. Be patient.
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#7
10-08-2005, 03:38 PM
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Re: Raise flop or wait for turn?
I call the flop. And I strangle a kitty every time someone want to protect their set from a flush. This one was a tabby with white feet.
Krishan
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#8
10-08-2005, 03:45 PM
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Re: Raise flop or wait for turn?
how does raising reveal your hand? You could be raising here with any number of hands. I really think you are losing a ton of value by not raising the flop. Raising the turn "reveals your hand" way more than raising the flop does. SB and BB are loose and will cold 2 cold on the flop with a very wide range of hands. They won't call 2 cold on the turn with such a wide range. You will also get 3bet on the flop much more frequently than you will on the turn.
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#10
10-08-2005, 04:23 PM
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Re: Raise flop or wait for turn?
I'd raise the flop whether or not I 3bet preflop, however I would have 3bet pf. I don't see any reason to try and slowplay with a 2flush showing. You may not be able to get a raise in on the turn anyway.
The flop raise would infact protect against a hand like T9, JT, 76, or 65 that would be correct to call one, but not 2.
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