HU hand with Greg J

MrWookie47 · #1 10-11-2005, 01:30 AM

I challenged Greg J this evening to a MLL match in a battle of the mods. Turns out he wasn't planning on playing in the MLL, but we played anyway. This hand came up, and I knew I wanted to post it, but I wasn't sure of how. It has some no content elements (just as a warning), but it was a real mind bender for me, too. I want to know what you guys would be thinking during this hand, so I'm going to post it in play along mode.

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (2 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

This is the first hand in about 150 that's been capped preflop. Greg started out not raising as much preflop, but he seems to have increased recently. We've both been raising pretty liberally preflop, but we've limped sometimes in the SB/button, and sometimes check the BB after a SB/button limp. We have both been defending our BB liberally, but 3betting somewhat infrequently, presumably with our better hands.

Post-flop, I've noticed Greg's aggression increasing as we've played. He started out folding a lot, but he's been raising more. I've snapped of a fair number (too many?) turn bluff-raises and check/raises. I noticed that if Greg doesn't fold the flop, he's very likely to make it to the river. He hasn't been folding the turn much to a single bet. He checked a river OOP on a 4 flush board holding the 3rd nut flush. He might fold to a raise or a 3bet of what was very likely a bluff, or perhaps a free showdown play with a weak hand. He's willing to call a bet on the end with K high, but he's also folded to some out of place river donkbets. I've been playing somewhat tighter than that. I've been having a tendancy to make too many poor bluffs in terrible spots, so, while I still semi-bluff aggressively, my pure bluffs have come way down in frequency. I've shown down A high, though, and I've bet and raised with AK high on a ragged paired board when I thought I was best (I was at showdown).

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

What is hero's plan at this point?

shadow29 · #2 10-11-2005, 01:32 AM

Bet/Call
Call
Call

cold_cash · #3 10-11-2005, 01:57 AM

I say check/call, bet/call, check/call.

MrWookie47 · #4 10-11-2005, 02:01 AM

Heh. Maybe I should add, "WHY this plan?"

cold_cash · #5 10-11-2005, 02:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Heh. Maybe I should add, "WHY this plan?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my thinking:

If I bet the flop he's going to raise me with all kinds of stuff, and I really don't want to put him in a position to take a free card on the turn. Since I'm planning on betting the turn I don't really want to call two raises (since I'd really like to see a showdown).

Also I'm thinking that flop gets checked through exactly never, and if it does he probably flopped a royal flush.

Heads up is tough sometimes. If it were a regular hand you could bet and fold somewhere, but I don't know if I want to do that in this spot since there's lots of spastic agression and semi-bluffing when it gets down to just two players.

He could semi-bluff the flop AND the turn w/ a pair and a flush draw. I wanna showdown without giving free cards.

Edit -- I just noticed, with his pre-flop cap you might be able to get away from this one on a later street. (If you're not hellbent on showing down like I always am. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] )

Aaron W. · #6 10-11-2005, 02:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I challenged Greg J this evening to a MLL match in a battle of the mods. Turns out he wasn't planning on playing in the MLL, but we played anyway. This hand came up, and I knew I wanted to post it, but I wasn't sure of how. It has some no content elements (just as a warning), but it was a real mind bender for me, too. I want to know what you guys would be thinking during this hand, so I'm going to post it in play along mode.

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (2 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

This is the first hand in about 150 that's been capped preflop. Greg started out not raising as much preflop, but he seems to have increased recently. We've both been raising pretty liberally preflop, but we've limped sometimes in the SB/button, and sometimes check the BB after a SB/button limp. We have both been defending our BB liberally, but 3betting somewhat infrequently, presumably with our better hands.

Post-flop, I've noticed Greg's aggression increasing as we've played. He started out folding a lot, but he's been raising more. I've snapped of a fair number (too many?) turn bluff-raises and check/raises. I noticed that if Greg doesn't fold the flop, he's very likely to make it to the river. He hasn't been folding the turn much to a single bet. He checked a river OOP on a 4 flush board holding the 3rd nut flush. He might fold to a raise or a 3bet of what was very likely a bluff, or perhaps a free showdown play with a weak hand. He's willing to call a bet on the end with K high, but he's also folded to some out of place river donkbets. I've been playing somewhat tighter than that. I've been having a tendancy to make too many poor bluffs in terrible spots, so, while I still semi-bluff aggressively, my pure bluffs have come way down in frequency. I've shown down A high, though, and I've bet and raised with AK high on a ragged paired board when I thought I was best (I was at showdown).

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

What is hero's plan at this point?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I check-call the flop, bet-fold the turn, and check-call the river if he didn't raise the turn.

I don't like our hand here. I'm more concerned with the ace than I am the 3-flush. The only hands that he likely holds here that you beat are QQ and TT (maybe 99). And of the 9 possible pocket pairs, 5 of them are also flush draws, making your edge much smaller (and he won't fold). The rest of his hand range probably looks like AA-JJ, AK-AJ, KQ.

The turn bet will keep him from taking a free river with QQ or TT, and he won't want to raise without a strong hand because he would hate getting 3-bet on the turn. Do you have enough outs to peel on the turn? I think you've got about 4 outs on average here, and when you throw in the reverse-implied odds nature of the hand, a fold becomes prudent.

If he only calls on the turn, I think I would like to fold the river (because I don't think he'll bluff QQ or TT here), but I probably end up calling to look him up. Having never played with Greg, I don't know if he's capable of bluffing the river after the turn donk-bet. Maybe he is, so that's why I probably check-call. But I seriously doubt he'd do that because he'll almost certainly get called. I expect this to get checked through on the river.

PokerSparky · #7 10-11-2005, 04:09 AM

I feel like i'm getting this to showdown. I bet/call the flop. If raised on the flop I check call the turn, and bet/call a non-spade river.

MrWookie47 · #8 10-11-2005, 10:22 AM

My thinking in this hand so far was very similar to Aaron's. I didn't like my hand all that much, but there was a chance I was ahead. However, the chance of me getting raised by a worse hand on the flop was extremely high. Here's what happened, though:

Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (4 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

So, did he check behind the flopped royal, as Cold Cash suggested, or did it indicate weakness, or even wanton donking preflop? Did that Q improve our hand, or make it worse?

Aaron W. · #9 10-11-2005, 11:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking in this hand so far was very similar to Aaron's. I didn't like my hand all that much, but there was a chance I was ahead. However, the chance of me getting raised by a worse hand on the flop was extremely high. Here's what happened, though:

Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (4 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

So, did he check behind the flopped royal, as Cold Cash suggested, or did it indicate weakness, or even wanton donking preflop? Did that Q improve our hand, or make it worse?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind check-folding now. There's not much that you beat anymore. Both QQ and TT have you beat now. There's still a hopeful 99 or other hand that capped preflop to misrepresent his hand, but I think it's quite remote (A9s? I don't think he'd go much lower than that...).

The only other option is check-call, check-call, and hope he got a little silly preflop and now hopes to run you off your hand.

I don't like any play that involves betting.

lautzutao · #10 10-11-2005, 11:37 AM

this is heads up with 2 pair...I'm not folding this. And I think you should have bet the flop.

I certainly would have bet the turn, two pair is a strong hand...what are we giving him credit for?

If he ONLY 3-bet/capped premium hands I would maybe be check/calling down.

*EDIT If he's been letting you bet his hands for him and c/ring you, he's probably going to be doing it here regardless of what he has, because the board is scary. See a showdown minimum.