This donkey never folds a set.

fish43 · #1 10-04-2005, 01:25 AM

Winning Low Limit Hold'em makes it clear that a set should almost always try to see a showdown. I good donkey tries to get to that showdown as expensively as possible. The following hand we see Donkey hero getting a set.

Ultimate Bet 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Donkey is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.05.
Donkey calls, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Donkey calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Donkey calls, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button raises, SB calls, Donkey calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Donkey checks, UTG+1 checks, Button bets, SB calls, Donkey raises, UTG+1 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (17 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Donkey bets, UTG+1 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 21 BB

I really didn't want to put in two bets preflop but can't resist playing pairs from UTG. This donkey loves pocket pairs.

Flopped a top set and my plan is to bet it out instead of slow playing. But the SB bets out first. I call going for over callers, I'll pop it on the turn when the bets are bigger. Then the button raises and I put him on over cards with a flush draw. Drat. I got the best hand but I might need a full house to win this one at the showdown. I decide to slow down and hope for the board to pair. That really was my plan but the Donkey style doesn't allow for thinking.

The flush hit and like a good donkey I decide to check-raise with the second best hand. I don't think it gives me more information because the flush may not 3-bet hoping to keep all three players in the hand. I'm going to the showdown with this hand. I should probably try and get there as cheap as possible. Maybe I'll catch one of my 10 outs on the river, 8, 222, 444, or AAA.

I'm trying to get to the showdown cheaply so I go ahead and bet the river over card. At least it's not a fourth spade. Nobody folds or raises... I can't have the best hand?

Weatherhead03 · #2 10-04-2005, 01:30 AM

Raise the flop. Charge the flush draw and the spade draw. If they want to pay to see their flush let them call 2 cold.

#3 10-04-2005, 01:33 AM

I'm not going to go into your play b/c it is too hard to read your post, but in general you should never fold a set unless you have a super strong reason to believe you're beaten.

2+2 wannabe · #4 10-04-2005, 01:34 AM

I like the first flop call - but you have to raise it when it comes back to you the second time

bet the turn - you can't give a free card here, and you have a lot of outs if you're behind (which I'm doubtful you are)

easy river bet - you're good WAY MORE than 25% of the time

you didn't play it horribly....the river bet is really good IMO - I don't get your problem with your play (other than checking the turn)

#5 10-04-2005, 01:52 AM

First post on 2+2, lemme know if I go wrong.

Easy call preflop, any reason why opening would be out of order?

I raise the flop here every time. The pot is large enough that any spade draw is calling regardless, and pairs w/overcards or gut shots (or just bare overcards and GSSDs, at that limit 6-handed) will be calling as well.

On the turn, I bet and call a raise (is this too weak-tight?) If the board doesn't pair, check-call if the turn was raised, if not, lead turn, river.

Eeegah · #6 10-04-2005, 01:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop. Charge the flush draw and the spade draw. If they want to pay to see their flush let them call 2 cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a reason to raise the flop.

#7 10-04-2005, 02:03 AM

Well played.

I would probably call-3bet the flop when given the opportunity, but playing it your way disguised your hand and allowed you to get more bets in on the turn so its debatable.

Duerig · #8 10-04-2005, 02:04 AM

I think you need to 3 bet that flop.

Weatherhead03 · #9 10-04-2005, 02:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is not a reason to raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the pot is big enough that you need to protect your hand and charge the straight and flush draws. You have a large equity edge here. Make them pay.

Can you inform me as to why else you should raise?

TomBrooks · #10 10-04-2005, 02:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I really didn't want to put in two bets preflop but can't resist playing pairs from UTG.
Flopped a top set and my plan is to bet it out instead of slow playing. But the SB bets out first. I call going for over callers, I'll pop it on the turn when the bets are bigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling preflop raise standard.

SB betting out was the perfect set up for you to raise on this dangerous flop. Don't go for more bets, you will often lose the whole pot doing so.

The pot is big. Maximize your chances of winning it. Make gutshots and single spade holders fold or call incorrectly. Slowplaying here will cost you when you get sucked out on by someone that you could have gotten to fold or pay you extra for all the times they miss. Thats how you get their money.

If you don't raise, you don't charge them for when they miss, but they take the whole pot away from you when they hit and you let them do so cheaply.

After you raise the flop, hand plays differently.