Defending BB with low pocket pair simple question

thesharpie · #1 10-03-2005, 03:46 AM

Against an EP raise against an unknown, what's the lowest PP you play in the BB?

somapopper · #2 10-03-2005, 03:57 AM

66 I guess... but I think I should probably take it up to 88 as I'm not crazy about trying to take the pot away from the ep raiser without making a set or a straight draw.

Carmine · #3 10-03-2005, 07:23 AM

I complete with any PP. If you don't hit your set the board and player determine my actions which will be folding on the flop about 70% of the time.

Nick C · #4 10-03-2005, 07:28 AM

I wonder about this too.

When I've got 33 in the BB, for instance, and there's an EP raise, part of the reason I'm hoping for at least one cold-caller is that a cold-caller will make my decision easy.

Maybe it should be easy anyway. I'm not sure.

@bsolute_luck · #5 10-03-2005, 07:57 AM

is this full ring? standard raising range(AK-J, KQ, AA-88)?

i do 66. more of the deck will hit you for your straight draw as well as both set outs are good. and if the board comes 789T - unless villain has AJ/JJ, your bottom straight card is goot. lower than that, and your set outs are vulnerable to a straight draw if villain has an Ace. but i hate completing simply for set value, so for right now 66 gives me the most opportunity to win back my money and/or suckout.

crunchy1 · #6 10-03-2005, 08:38 AM

Your post made me think of this thread from March. It's funny looking back on it because back then there was sooo much that I really didn't understand. I was an ass but, this is a great thread. It's also funny because today I'd be playing every time - 3-betting against some opponents, calling against some and leading many flops. Thanks Errant, sfer!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

55 in the BB

winky51 · #7 10-03-2005, 01:28 PM

Why are you defending your BB with a crappy pair anyways vs an EP raiser?

You get a 11.8% chance to hit a set. What are you going to do when the flop comes QT8, 2 flush no set? He might just be holding AK?

Best case is he has big pair and you hit a set. You make big money

Assume poor players (AK = AK-AJ, KQ, AA = pairs AA=TT)
AK vs 55, paired vs set: 3.8% win 11 SB
(cap flop, opponent calls down)
PF Raiser vs 55, Doesnt matter vs no set: 88.2% lose 1 SB
(you said you would fold, usually they bet flop and turn)
AA vs 55, set vs set: 1.4% lose 15 (assume its capped on flop and turn, called on river)
Preflop raiser vs 55, Suckout vs set: 5% lose 9 SB
(1.9% to 7% depending on flop for rasier)
AK vs 55, no pair/draw vs set: 7.8% win 5
(check, opponent bets, you raise, he calls, you lead turn, he folds)

30 possibilities vs a big pair 27.3%
80 possibilities vs 2 high cards 72.7%

ANY 3.8% x 100.0% +11 = +.418
ANY 82.0% x 100.0% -1 = -.82
AA 1.4% x 27.3% -15 = -.057
ANY 5.0% x 100.0% -9 = -.450
AK 7.8% x 72.7% +5 = +.283

total -0.626 BB per 100 hands
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I took about 45 mins to figure this out. If you saw the opponents hand then it would be positive but no set no bet then your a loser. Since you are folding everytime you miss no matter what they have.

#8 10-03-2005, 01:35 PM

I will call a raise with any pocket pair and continue if the flop is favorable

B Dids · #9 10-03-2005, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
66 I guess... but I think I should probably take it up to 88 as I'm not crazy about trying to take the pot away from the ep raiser without making a set or a straight draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is 66 really any different from 22 here.

HU, 88 unimproved can be a fine hand. If the pot's multiway then you can start thinking about set value, but for the rest, just get better at player postflop.

toss · #10 10-03-2005, 01:49 PM

Another good question is how often do you 3-bet with a small PP against a 20/10/2.