Pocket jacks in SB

#1 09-23-2005, 02:36 AM

I'd not been at the table very long, but all the players involved in this hand seemed somewhat loose.

I thought about three-betting preflop, but it was unlikely to drive out the BB, and I would have been out of position for the rest of the hand.

I was thinking of check-raising the flop, but when the other two players folded decided to check raise the turn instead.

And does anyone prefer check-call on the river instead of bet-fold?

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 raises, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP3 folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (9 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB

TheHammer24 · #2 09-23-2005, 02:41 AM

I don't like how you played this at all. First of all you have the best hand preflop and that is why you raise. You need to exploit that equity edge.

I just c/r on the flop and get action from an Ace. You have a monster in a decent sized multiway pot. Jus start pushing bets.

On the turn I would bet out, as played it is fine.

I think I like bet/calling more than bet folding personally, but prefer check/calling the most.

shant · #3 09-23-2005, 03:15 AM

3-bet preflop and lead the flop. If raised on the flop you can 3-bet or call and try to bet/3-bet the turn. With drawy boards I don't like checking.

arch12 · #4 09-23-2005, 03:28 AM

Folding this river is quite a big error in my opinion, you only have to be good here 1/13. I think it's impossible to conclude that villain isn't bluffing or raising two pair at least ~7% of the time, especially readless. With that being said, I think bet/call is the best line on the river. I feel villain will call with a number of hands you're ahead of, which he will check behind with if given the option.

#5 09-23-2005, 04:54 AM

If it were gonna be HU for sure, you could argue for deception's sake to just call preflop, but in order to either get BB out or make him pay dearly to see a flop w/ his trash, 3bet that.

As for the rest of it, its already been said. I think you'll be shown something like AQ way more than enough times to make that an easy river call on the end.

@bsolute_luck · #6 09-23-2005, 07:30 AM

you had your reasons for varying your play, not a big deal.
fold that river IS a big deal. you'll see 2 pair here very often. if he beat into a preflop raiser with his position on a flush draw, he's a moron anyways.

TemetNosce · #7 09-23-2005, 09:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Folding this river is quite a big error in my opinion, you only have to be good here 1/13.

[/ QUOTE ]

#8 09-23-2005, 11:35 AM

folding is NOT an option here. Bet/call is the best here. He may have picked up two pair, doubt he has the flush, could have the straight but its one more bet to you and there are 12 BB in the pot. If u win this 1 in 12 times u break even, u HAVE to call here.

#9 09-23-2005, 11:51 AM

So I definitely see the argument for raising JJ preflop. I would always raise QQ, and I'll often raise JJ too from this position, but as more players come in I know I'm going to need a more favorable board. Exactly what pocket pair would people go down to in three-betting in this situation?

As for the bet-fold on the river, well I'm still experimenting with this and perhaps this wasn't the right time. However, I think raising the river would be a pretty unusual play from my opponent with two pair, but maybe I'm wrong. I checked the flop and then check-raised the turn, which usually signals I've got top pair beat. By the river any T beats me, as does the flush draw. I just don't see anyone raising with anything less. Maybe I'm just not clear as to when bet-fold is the optimal play? I would previously have checked and made a crying call in this situation, but that doesn't seem optimal either (since I'll only be putting money into the hand when I have the worst of it).

krimson · #10 09-23-2005, 11:52 AM

I don't really like any street here.

Raise pre-flop, "the BB won't fold anyways". Good! More people coming to the flop with inferior hands for more bets is a good thing.

Definitely bet this flop. Someone probably has an ace, and will raise. And we 3-bet or setup a c/r on the turn.

Turn is okay, but I would have bet/3-bet the flop so I would be leading here and hoping for an AK to raise again.

River, I can't fold this. How do you know he didn't have AQ? b/c the river.