More AK

cold_cash · #1 09-21-2005, 01:16 AM

Here's one.

I don't have many hands on this guy, but from the few I do have he's too loose and is probably about average as far as agressiveness goes.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

Meh?

TheHammer24 · #2 09-21-2005, 01:29 AM

Does CO have AA...more likely JJ however. AJ maybe I think you played it correctly. Turn c/r is opitimal most of the time, and you just can't fold the river when only 4 combos logically beat you. I hope he had AQ

cold_cash · #3 09-21-2005, 01:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Does CO have AA...more likely JJ however. AJ maybe I think you played it correctly. Turn c/r is opitimal most of the time, and you just can't fold the river when only 4 combos logically beat you. I hope he had AQ

[/ QUOTE ]

You like check-raising the turn better than bet/3-betting?

istewart · #4 09-21-2005, 01:41 AM

I think check/raising and calling a 3-bet is better here. I don't like bet/3-betting because I think it puts you in an uncomfortable spot. What's he raising with on the turn that you beat? Seems like AQ and that's it.

Shillx · #5 09-21-2005, 01:46 AM

I was thinking about similar spots earlier and I wanted to try a new "standard" line here. I would consider check/calling the 1st two streets and check/raising the river.

Brad

cold_cash · #6 09-21-2005, 01:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about similar spots earlier and I wanted to try a new "standard" line here. I would consider check/calling the 1st two streets and check/raising the river.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually thought about taking this approach, and also considered check-raising the turn, but I was worried he might check through a pocket pair.

I'm not sure which is better. I definetely see istewart's point about how hard the turn cap blows, though.

I feel like I've been stumbling around like a blind roofer lately. I'm barely breaking even and I'm feeling really "bleh", like I've forgotten how to handle situations I should know how to handle.

Maybe it's because I'm moving back to full games after playing shorthanded forever. I hope so anyway.

#7 09-21-2005, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about similar spots earlier and I wanted to try a new "standard" line here. I would consider check/calling the 1st two streets and check/raising the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think too often they are going to slow down with a worse hand and check the river through.

aces_dad · #8 09-21-2005, 02:23 AM

I would also be concerned about the river being checked through with worse hands and prefer to c/r the turn here.

Certainly better players will take the free showdown offered by this line.

aK13 · #9 09-21-2005, 05:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about similar spots earlier and I wanted to try a new "standard" line here. I would consider check/calling the 1st two streets and check/raising the river.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

What about check/call flop, bet/call turn, bet/fold river?

Shillx · #10 09-21-2005, 06:38 AM

I dunno I was just thinking about spots like this earlier while drinking a margarita [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] but it was a little bit different. I don't really mean to hijack here, but these were kinda my raw thoughts...

We raise in say UTG+2 with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and get a coldcaller who is a reasonable player. He will not just calldown with anything and everything. Flop is HU and comes down

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I feel like we can make a good case for playing it very slow.

A) If he doesn't have anything (say KJs) he will just fold on the flop. When we check he might get interested and take a stab at it. He also might take a stab at it if we decide to check again on 4th street.

B) If he has a pocket pair he will probably just fold. This way he might take a stab at it after we check the flop. If he checks behind with a pair he will probably end up paying off since he might not trust us after the flop check.

C) A lot of players will never figure us for an ace here. The way poker games have gotten these days (how aggressive they are), top pair aces is almost always worth a bet or raise or check/raise on the flop. This is kinda why I like this line in your had Cash. If he has KK or QQ he will not put us on an ace when we check and call both the flop and turn. He will then value bet the river and we get to throw in a very odd check/raise that he will probably end up paying off (as long as the turn and river cards are low).

D) The pot is small and the villian is almost always drawing to < 3 outs here. This isn't really a bad time to try and throw him some rope if he isn't a calling machine. The downside is that we lose out when he has a pair of aces, but he will surely bet all 3 streets with top pair and we get 3.5 BB from him postflop. We probably get this much by playing our hand straight up (i.e. bet/3bet flop and then see him calldown). This line also saves us when he flopped the joint, and that is why it is so common in tournament play (or correct I should say). Top pair aces is such a strong hand that you want the opponent to take ill-advised stabs. In the rare case that you are beat, you save $$$ by not spewing a bunch of bets with what looks like a boss hand.

I played a hand the other day at .02/.04 against an unknown who I thought might be good that kinda made me wonder. He open raised in MP and I 3-bet from the CO with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. He capped it and the flop came down

Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

He checked and called. The turn card was something low like the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and he again checked and called. The river card was like the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and he check/raised me. I thought for sure that he had AK/AJ and was trying to push me off the same hand(s) as a good player might do. So of course I instantly called and got shown KK (he ended up being a donk, meh). If he played his hand more striaght forward I certainly would have thrown it away somewhere (probably on the turn). So his oddplay got him a few extra big bets since his line looks like air.