Two Pair - How vulnerable are they?

[rsq]

I am asking a generic question - no specific hand other than in the past 12 hours I have had 5 two pairs dealt on the flop to me busted by:

Larger Two Pairs
Flushes
Straights
Sets

I do not recall having so many two pairs off the flop am confused as to how strong the hand really is.

Initially (for the first 3) I slow played, and found each instance busted on the river after a turn card created a bad board.

The last two I played fast, betting the pot on the flop and people came along for the ride and made thier hands.

I would appreciate some general thoughts on how to play this hand more profitably.

Thanks

[TomHimself]

post some of the hands. 2pair is good

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
post some of the hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed.
2 pair tends to be good in certain situations.
Example: Someone raises and you know that they have a hand like AK. You have A5 and call. The flop comes A-5-x. Your 2 pair here is huge.
Example when it's not so good: You have j-10 and the flop is j-10-K. Co-ordinated flops are dangerous to medium strength hands like 2 pair (especially bottom 2)

The answer to an open-ended question like this is almost always "it depends". In an unraised, multi-way pot you definitely do not want to play it slow. I usually bet out roughly 2/3 pot and try to get a sense of what my opponents have. You have to know your opponents, but often, if you get action in an unraised pot, especially early in a tourney, you need to proceed with caution. The pot isn't large, so the odds that they are trying to put a move on you go way down.

If you were not the aggressor pre-flop (ie you called a raise of your blind), and you think the flop probably helped your opponent or made him think his overpair is good, you should lead into him, and then come over the top with a raise. Especially if you have a low two pair out of position and you think your opponent has top pair or an overpair, you want to take a large pot down or get all in on the flop. Top pair has a lot of outs against bottom two, and once you build the pot, you'll have trouble getting away from the hand on a later street.

Top two pair is a much less vulnerable hand, especially if you think your opponent is dominated (ie has top pair, whether or not his kicker was better than yours to begin with). This is a pretty safe time to slow-play, since your opponent will likely take the lead holding either 3 or 0 outs against you.

Any time there are draws on the board, you should bet enough to not give your opponents the right odds to take another card (remember that their odds may be a little worse than they think, however, since some of their 'outs' might make you a boat). If you build a pot on the flop and improve to a boat on the turn but you don't think your opponent hit his draw yet, I like betting out but giving him good odds to see the river. With the pot a little larger, he'll probably be willing to get all in if he hits on the river.

The biggest thing here is that it depends on which two pair you have, what you think your opponent(s) have, how coordinated the board is, and the size of the blinds and pot relative to stacks at the table.

[AtticusFinch]

Two-pair is a very good hand, but it's unwise to slow play it on anything other than a rainbow board with little or no straight potential. It's vulnerable to straights and flushes, and has far fewer outs to fill up than a set.

Also, watch out for low two-pair, as that's vulnerable to counterfeits if the board pairs. Nothing sucks more than getting all-in with your kings and sixes vs villains TPTK, only to have the river pair an 8 on the board.

Really depends on the board.. I usually never slow play two-pair though (sometimes maybe against one opponent and empty board).. especially with bottom 2 pair since they can be counterfeited on the turn or river (had to learn the hard way a couple times)

[KneeCo]

[ QUOTE ]
Two-pair is a very good hand, but it's unwise to slow play it on anything other than a rainbow board with little or no straight potential. It's vulnerable to straights and flushes, and has far fewer outs to fill up than a set.

Also, watch out for low two-pair, as that's vulnerable to counterfeits if the board pairs. Nothing sucks more than getting all-in with your kings and sixes vs villains TPTK, only to have the river pair an 8 on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Two pair is not a slow play hand, unless it's top two on a rainbow board (obviously without a pair on the board).

I got knocked out of a tourney the other night when I made bottom two on a 87K(r) board, check-raised a multi-way pot into a heads-up all in, and got sucked out on by AK when it spiked top two.

Still, I'm happy with how I played the hand and know that in the long run, that'll be a winning strategy. A lot of people I think would have slowplayed that and would have had a really hard decision when the turn brought an A (or an easy but frustrating fold if a K came off).

In very general terms, two pair, especially flopped two pair, is very good.

Finally, like others have mentioned, the best way for us to comment on your hands would be if you posted them.

[subzero]

I see two-pair win all the time (just not when I play it). I suggest not slowplaying and treating it for what it is, better than one-pair. Also be able to let it go (something I'm learning to do) on an "innocent" board.