Flop A Bad Top Pair - Too weak?

CIncyHR · #1 09-19-2005, 07:43 PM

Here I flop a weak top pair with a BB hand. I face immediate pressure an dhave no backdoor draw. Is it right to check fold this turn unimproved? Donkbet? Checkraise? This seams SOOOO weak to a 6max player such as myself, but I just dont see what else I can do here.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, CO calls, 1 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.00 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB.

Another newb post.

TheHammer24 · #2 09-19-2005, 07:53 PM

reads?!

CIncyHR · #3 09-19-2005, 08:00 PM

I wish I did! Just sta down at the table, so assume an unknown.

@bsolute_luck · #4 09-19-2005, 09:17 PM

i weep heavily over that fold [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

CIncyHR · #5 09-19-2005, 09:20 PM

OK, so whats your line? Its a very small pot.

Eeegah · #6 09-19-2005, 09:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wish I did! Just sta down at the table, so assume an unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a read: Villain openlimped in the CO and therefore sucks. We're a little under 50-50 if he's got Qx (not exactly 50-50 because Q2 and Q8 suck for us), and given the cash in the blind I think we can call this down. It's read-dependent though unfortunately, and I could be wrong.

That said, if you're folding the turn U/I then you may as well fold the flop; a Q won't help you if you're outkicked, leaving you as a 3-outer if he doesn't have an 8.

TheHammer24 · #7 09-19-2005, 09:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wish I did! Just sta down at the table, so assume an unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a read: Villain openlimped in the CO and therefore sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

This logic is terrible flawed. To assume villian sucks simply because he called in CO is bad. To assume villian has a bad hand because he sucks is even more flawed. You have the best hand a lot here, but the pot is small. If you want to fodl the small pot fold the flop, but I call this down. Villian has a hand like 77 66 a lot.

Eeegah · #8 09-19-2005, 11:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This logic is terrible flawed. To assume villian sucks simply because he called in CO is bad. To assume villian has a bad hand because he sucks is even more flawed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and no. It's not exactly a secret that if it's folded to you by the cutoff, it's a raise-or fold situation. The villain didn't, indicating that he either doesn't know (inexperienced), is scared to put his non-premium hand in for two (weak-tight), or simply had the auto-call checked and didn't uncheck it before it got to him (inattentive). None of these are the hallmarks of a good player, so we may be able to suppose that his play is somewhat flawed.

Does this mean he has a bad hand? No, of course not. But subpar players tend to be looser on average, and thus their range of good hands is diluted. I don't think it's out of line at all to think he has a queen of some sort.

Could the villain have a mid pocket pair? Sure. Could he be trying to fancy-play a limped KK because he's afraid he won't get proper value from just a blind steal? Yup. Which is more likely? Not a clue.

My "read" was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but since we're lacking one this hand could go either way. It may be worth a call down just to see what he limped.

Shillx · #9 09-19-2005, 11:16 PM

Someone who open donks in the CO has you screwed on the flop. Either he is trying to be "tricky" and has aces or is a bad player and has a better queen. A bad player isn't going to raise the flop with anything you beat (i.e. a flush draw). Nice hand.

Brad

Eeegah · #10 09-19-2005, 11:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Someone who open donks in the CO has you screwed on the flop. Either he is trying to be "tricky" and has aces or is a bad player and has a better queen. A bad player isn't going to raise the flop with anything you beat (i.e. a flush draw). Nice hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you implying that you'd see the turn?