Straight over straight over straight

[Ulysses]

Live 15-30 game. I'm on the button with KdQh.

CO open-raises. He seems to be a pretty tight ABC player. Haven't played /w him before. At one point a bad businessman-looking guy sits down. Very weak player. After a while, CO whispers to me "Boy, this reminds me of the scene in Rounders when the convention guy sat down at the table." I guess CO fancies himself a shark. He's talking a lot about where good games are. Anyway, enough of that. I don't believe his raise. The blinds are both pretty loose players and will call one or two bets w/ the same hands, so I cold-call. I think I should have 3-bet, but whatever, that's not important here. Blinds both call.

Flop 9TJ - two types of black. I like it.

SB comes out firing. SB is a pretty poor player, but not a complete idiot. CO calls. I call.

Turn blank

SB keeps on firing. CO keeps on calling. I start raising. Both call.

River blank

SB now checks. CO now bets. I now raise. SB cold-calls. CO ponders for an eternity. I look at him and say "Good muck." He says "In that case, I re-raise." I don't ponder and immediately fire out a 4-bet. CO says "I guess that was a mistake." SB now ponders for an eternity and finally folds, looking very sick about it. CO calls.

I win, of course. CO shows Qh8h. SB said he had 78 and I believe him.

After the hand, CO said he was about to call on the river, but was positive I was bluffing when I said "Good muck."

What do you think of all of our play?

[pilchard]

SMALL BLIND
Preflop call is a mistake but he played his hand correctly by leading on the flop and by leading on the turn. When you raise the turn he has to make a decision. I would have reraised the turn as it looks as if the CO is drawing and you could very well be raising with two pair or a big draw.
On the river I would have led with my straight. After checking, he is in an awful situation when there is a bet and a raise to him, with a no pair no flush board it is a big laydown with his straight. His call is understandable but he's right to throw it away subsequently.

CUTOFF
Preflop raise depends on his read of opponents but I'd have to be up against super tight blinds to consider it with Q8o.

I'd raise on the flop with his hand but he definitely needs to be raising on the turn at every opportunity. An 8, Q, K or flush card is going to effect his betting on the river.
On the river he knows he can at least tie with the SB so he's only concern is whether you have QK. He was obviously thinking of calling but you managed to get the two extra bets by giving him a touch of the verbals.

YOUR PLAY
Can't see anything wrong at all. As you say, perhaps should have three bet preflop but then again just calling isn't that wrong. The only time you didn't raise was on the flop and given that you had the nuts with position against two other players there is nothing wrong with that.

[Ulysses]

Can't see anything wrong at all. As you say, perhaps should have three bet preflop but then again just calling isn't that wrong. The only time you didn't raise was on the flop and given that you had the nuts with position against two other players there is nothing wrong with that.

Well, the more I think about it, the more I think I made a big mistake not raising the flop. I'd do that with top pair. I'd do that with two pair. I'd do that with an overpair. I'd do that with pair + flush or straight draw. And these guys have both seen me do it with much less than all of that. So what the hell am I thinking not doing it with the stone cold nuts?

It worked out OK this time, but I think raising the flop is the right move in this scenario.

[Nottom]

I agree, raise the flop. SB would have 3-bet which would have made you happy you did.

[elysium]

hi ulysses
played it perfectly. i like the "good muck" comment; memorable.

[Coilean]

I agree, there's plenty you could raise the flop with that will still let you raise on the turn after getting 3-bet. After a flop raise, they should only be able to narrow your holdings down to set, overpair, or big flush/straight draws, with the nuts being of little concern to them in the sea of possibilties. So you should get 3-bet by plenty of hands on the flop, and still be able to put in a raise on the turn if you smoothcall that bet. And even after raising the turn, they may only put you on a set or overpair, possibly allowing you to 3-bet the turn anyway if you run into another straight or set. So yeah, I think raising the flop is preferable to calling, especially if you're like me and tend to be pretty liberal with flop raises from the backseat.