TPTK but he keeps raising me

fyodor · #1 09-16-2005, 07:04 PM

I just know this guy is loose and will limp in with a lot of stuff. Does he have K5, K3 or K8? Maybe a small set? Is it sane to give up anywhere?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Button calls, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

JimmyJazz1 · #2 09-16-2005, 07:33 PM

You gotta call down. He could easily have a worse king or turned some kind of draw along with his mid or bottom pair. Folding anywhere here would be -EV.

Redeye · #3 09-16-2005, 08:01 PM

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You gotta call down. He could easily have a worse king or turned some kind of draw along with his mid or bottom pair. Folding anywhere here would be -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. And if he is loose enough to have some of the possible weird two pairs, you'll have outs to a better hand. I call this down, I'd have to have a strong read on the guy that he's a clown to 3bet and I'm always amazed at stuff the passive guys try and pull even when I have decent reads on them.

Alex/Mugaaz · #4 09-16-2005, 08:29 PM

In my experience people who raise the flop with a set will always cap it with a set as well. People who don't won't raise the flop at all, and will play possum until the turn to get a raise in there instead. Due to this I think you are absolutely fine with calling down.

fyodor · #5 09-16-2005, 09:39 PM

If he has a set, I am toast.
If he has K8 I have my 3 Ace outs.
K5 I have 3 Aces plus 3 eights
K3 those plus the 3 fives
The unlikely 85,83 or 53 and I have all kinds of outs
He might also just have AK himself

If I have an average of 4 outs (and it seems I do) then it's worth calling. On the river the pot is huge enough to call again.

It seems you all agree. I lost a few of these over the last few days so I was just checking. (A few being a massive amount)

He had K5 and MHINFG [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

GetThere1Time · #6 09-16-2005, 09:53 PM

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I have an average of 4 outs (and it seems I do) then it's worth calling. On the river the pot is huge enough to call again.

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People are crazy. Call it down.

krishanleong · #7 09-16-2005, 10:26 PM

Fold the river.

Krishan

There is a flush draw on the turn that he could have picked up. That makes it closer but in general, I don't like calling the river when you are only calling the turn because you have outs. If you don't improve, don't call.

Redeye · #8 09-16-2005, 10:31 PM

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Fold the river

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Don't you think thats an awfully big pot to fold to what is almost an unknown? Couldn't this be a lot of Kxh's getting juggy on the turn? I don't think we're just calling w/ outs but calling because we're ahead enough of the time to justify calling down, no?

Mig · #9 09-16-2005, 10:32 PM

Would you call at 10/20 ?

krishanleong · #10 09-16-2005, 10:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold the river

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Don't you think thats an awfully big pot to fold to what is almost an unknown? Couldn't this be a lot of Kxh's getting juggy on the turn? I don't think we're just calling w/ outs but calling because we're ahead enough of the time to justify calling down, no?

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Anytime you bet, 3-bet the flop and get raised on the turn, 95% of the time you are behind to a minumum of 2 pair. It's an easy spot to call the river with one pair but rationalizing it by saying it's a big pot doesn't mean it's correct. If someone showed me a PT query that displayed the showdown hands after this line was taken that showed bluffs occuring with the appropriate frequency that I would change my mind.

The fact that a flush draw appeared on the turn is the only thing in my mind that makes it close. I also don't always fold in spots like this but I wish I did.

Krishan