Hit your card with "potnential" big pot and FOLD????

PokerCrab · #1 09-01-2005, 02:45 PM

I'm fairly new to NL cash game. please offer some advice. thanks....

There we were at the Borgata at around 5:30am Monday morning - I think it was the only 2/5 NL game going - and there were MUCHO action on this table. There a bunch of decent players who were willing to gamble. This hand came up when I was in small Blind......

I peeked and I saw a 23 of diamonds. There were a lot of limping and this hand was no different - about 6-7 people to the flop -- I called the other 3 dollars to see the flop. Flop comes....

5s 5h 4c ( not too sure on the suits but it was rainbow)

Action was checked and One before the button bets 10 bucks - button calls - and I call since I was open ended. The rest of the table folds - since it was a limp pot - I was pretty sure that someone hit the 5 here but I was hoping to hit a straight and win a decent pot. Both players who called have over a grand on the table and I have about 650-700.

here comes the turn....

5s 5h 4c As

Bam the Ace - the very best card I can ask for - the nut straight. I immediately check and the same lady who bet on flop comes out betting 25 bucks again. The button doesnt take much time and smooth calls the 25. Right now, I'm really thinking I have the best hand and I want to take the lead into the river. I pop it up to 75 bucks. This is where it gets interesting.....the original lady pops it up to $200..........................then the button smooth calls the $200 also.

My thoughts at that time - First, the lady who popped it up to $200 plays alot of hands and bets alot also but it takes a pretty monstrous hand for her to reraise a raise - so, Im pretty startled by her reraise. I really dont think I have seen her reraise a raise all night but I could be wrong.....the Guy who called on button was definitely an action player. Plays lotta hands and will get in there and gamble also but is a good player so he's not just gonna throw away his money.

I couldnt put anyone on hand since it was a limp pot - pocket 4's or A5 or even 45 were hands I can so see limping in this hand. If it was heads up --- I would call the 200 and goto the river but I didnt like the guy smooth calling also. I figure one of them must have a boat. I thought if I call the 200 -- I am essentially playing for all my chips since the action on the turn probably will lead to action the river. For some reason - I just thought that my two choices were to fold or move all in.

I opted to fold. These were my thoughts during the hand but after talking about it....I have some different views on what I could have done.

But River comes blank and the lady shows K5 and button shows 56o.

I still feel that it was a correct fold even after seeing the two player's hands but then I kept thinking - maybe I'm just not cut out for NL. Maybe I dont take enough gamble.

Any views on the fold and some thoughts on the plays or just in general would be appreciated. Thanks!!!

LetYouDown · #2 09-01-2005, 02:50 PM

Based on your description of the woman, I'd fold. There's likely going to be a lot of action on the river. If you're going to see the river, I'd push and put as much pressure on as possible. But based on your description of the player(s) involved, I'm folding. There's a lot of cards that confirm you're beat on the river (case 5, a 4, an Ace) and you have to know that at least one of them has a 5. Based on the range you put people on, there is no river you can feel confident about. Push/Fold...I'd fold. But that's just my weak-tightness shining through.

michiganlaw · #3 09-01-2005, 03:09 PM

I don't understand this. Why call the flop bet on an open-ended straight draw if you have no intention of pushing your chips in the middle when your straight gets there? If you were truly worried someone had pocket 4s or pocket 5s, then you never should have called the flop.

Don't call a bet on a draw, if when your draw gets there, you're going to fold anyway.

LetYouDown · #4 09-01-2005, 03:17 PM

The flop action didn't really dictate any monsters. At the turn, the action changed considerably. Call/re-evaluate does have its place...especially for such a small flop bet.

illegit · #5 09-01-2005, 03:29 PM

I agree. I like how you played it. Make a mental note on the character of the 2 players and adjust accordingly. Each player having just a 5 is about the only situation where your hand is good here.

Big_Jim · #6 09-01-2005, 04:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't call a bet on a draw, if when your draw gets there, you're going to fold anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really bad advice.

What about when you hit your flush, but it pairs the board? What if you have an open ender on a two tone board and your straight comes with the flush card? What happens when you get re-raised by the rock, and you don't have the nuts?

Try to avoid blanket statements, especially ones where there are SO many exceptions.

LetYouDown · #7 09-01-2005, 04:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Try to avoid blanket statements, especially ones where there are SO many exceptions.

[/ QUOTE ]
Including or excluding the OP's situation? I'm curious how some of the better players would play it. It does seem like raising preflop in this game is a good idea...considering the quality of hands they're showing down. Granted, I don't think 2-3 is the place for that...but as a general thought.

Big_Jim · #8 09-01-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First, the lady who popped it up to $200 plays alot of hands and bets alot also but it takes a pretty monstrous hand for her to reraise a raise - so, Im pretty startled by her reraise. I really dont think I have seen her reraise a raise all night

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that this quote dictates a fold, on this hand. The flop call, however, is standard. Hero is getting great pot odds on this call (6:1).

On the turn, I usually lead, but given aggressive villian to your left, CR is good here.

RollaJ · #9 09-01-2005, 05:15 PM

c/r the turn to 150 to find out where you are, the $50 raise was VERY weak. Not a horrible fold, but for 125 more into a $550 pot I'd have called

padirk165 · #10 09-01-2005, 07:00 PM

If you are going to fold to a reraise in this spot then you are better suited making a much larger raise, the 50 raise into a 140 pot will not get out any better draws and invited a reraise from a weaker hand. If you make the raise 125 then it will be hard for a non full house hand to reraise and then a fold is easy. Passive play such as small raises with vulnerable, but good hands is not a profitable way to play NL cash games.