JJ UTG+1

foldem · #1 09-02-2005, 12:44 PM

2/4 6max, button seems reasonable.
me 550
button 450

i get JJ UTG+1 and raise to 20 after a loose limper, button calls, fishy BB calls, limper calls. so 4 of us to the flop:

T 5 2r

i bet 75, button flat calls other two fold. turn is the 7c putting a two flush on board i check-fold to a bet of 180. standard or am i seeing monsters under the bed?

emil3000 · #2 09-02-2005, 01:02 PM

Too weak IMO. You're still ahead to so many hands that he would play this way. I can see check calling and leading river. Or maybe ccing river too...
Betting is standard and works of course. I was just thinking that ccing might be better, cause I see fairly little chance of this turn getting checked through if you check. (( and similar pairs will bet to protect, most likely, but would have folded to a bet. AT will also bet, but would fold to a bet. A set and QQ-AA will bet of course, but these are the least likely hands your opponent might hold. T9s and similar hands could perhaps check, but if this guy is a little aggro they own't...
Is this good thinking?

foldem · #3 09-02-2005, 01:10 PM

What range of hands do you put the button on? I feel like AT is the only hand he could have that I am ahead of. When he flat called with two people yet to act, I thought a set was very likely. I don't think check calling and leading the river is an option as i will be committed to the pot, I think my options are check raise all in, bet fold or check fold.

emil3000 · #4 09-02-2005, 01:37 PM

I think he calls with a lot more hands... That's just me though. Checkraise all in is fine IMO.

ajmargarine · #5 09-02-2005, 01:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think he calls with a lot more hands... That's just me though. Checkraise all in is fine IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the c/r on the turn. I would rather lead because he has to be concerned that you have AA/KK, or at least an overpair. So if he knows that and still raises the turn, you can get away from the hand, because you are probably beat. Drawless board, shave a tad off your flop bet, so your turn bet can be a bit smaller.

emil3000 · #6 09-02-2005, 02:03 PM

Well, yeah, you can get away from the hand when you're beat. Conversely your opponents get away from their hands when you got them beat... I think that's the case most of the time... What handrange do you give villain? Which of those hands do you think he will bet? I think villains handrange consists mostly of hands that hero beats, and that he will bet almost all of them, but would fold to another bet. Therefore I think a checkraise is the best option.

ajmargarine · #7 09-02-2005, 02:17 PM

A c/r loses the most if villian has Hero beat and is basically gambooling. A c/f maybe folds the best hand. Nothing wrong with betting and folding out a worse villian hand and taking the pot right there and moving on.

foldem · #8 09-02-2005, 02:31 PM

I think a decent player will usually check behind hands like 89, AT, KT etc. on the turn. As for the range of hands I think it has to be ATo, ATs-JTs, TT, 77, 22, JJ-AA, 89s. There is no way he is going to call a big bet on the flop with worse than top pair or a good draw with two players yet to act. This guy hadn't done anything to make me believe he would over commit to top pair or worse so I checked intending to fold to a reasonable bet. If he checked behind I was going to value/block the river.

I do like the idea of betting 3/4 pot on the drawless flop so I can bet less on the turn and fold to a raise. This line might occasionally even fold a scared QQ.