Inflection point?

[DarrenX]

Having a rough PP 500K Guaranteed, I have 725 while the average stack is 2200. 25/50 blinds, I pick up AKs in mp. Donk (900) who plays too many hands limps utg+1, folded to me. I make it 225, only original limper calls. Flop is 842 2 hearts (I have diamonds). Villian thinks, then pushes. I curse, get ready to fold, then think- is this my inflection point? Pot is 1100, I have 500 left.

[CardSharpCook]

I'm not sure I have a good definition of inflection point, but it has nothing to do with this hand.

My understanding is, you're playing solid poker with a stack size of 10BB-50BB. However, there is a point at which you are an uber stack that you can really open up your game and start calling with inferior holdings because you might just take someone's entire stack. There is ANOTHER point at the low side. In fact, I'd say there is two. At 10BB, you actually tighten the screws a bit more and when you play, it is all-in PF, but then at 6BB you become wildly aggressive pushing hands that you'd steal with from the CO, but doing so from ANY position.

Stop trying to use big words. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

(also, I may be missing something here)

[DarrenX]

Gotta do my one bump since the results were not clear cut... for the two others that said no, can you tell me what your definition is? I understood it was a point in a tournament where there's a pretty good chance you're behind, but in looking at the big picture calling beats the alternative of folding leaving a microstack in comparison to the average. Slightly different than pot-committed, which I don't believe I was at this point...

[LethalRose]

You have to push here. This isnt really an inflection point. Do some searches.

[nath]

I think I call although I don't really like it. With that flop donk probably thinks you missed and is trying to push you off your hand-- at least there's a good enough chance of that getting better than 2:1 to make a call worth it.
I do see what you're saying about inflection points. You started the hand with just shy of 10x the pot which puts you between the orange and yellow zones. A double up gets you up to 20, right at the edge of the green zone, a much nicer place to be. Since you're a long way from the money you should probably take that chance, because it's going to be awfully hard to fight back from 500 even with great cards.

[CardSharpCook]

I really like a fold here. think of the hands you limp with UTG and how they are effected by this flop. Coming back from 10BBs isn't that hard. Sure it isn't easy, but it isn't worth taking this chance right here where you are likely behind 3:1 and getting 2:1 on a call.

[LethalRose]

[ QUOTE ]
I really like a fold here. think of the hands you limp with UTG and how they are effected by this flop. Coming back from 10BBs isn't that hard. Sure it isn't easy, but it isn't worth taking this chance right here where you are likely behind 3:1 and getting 2:1 on a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're right I'am so stupid

[skoal2k4]

Look here

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
I really like a fold here. think of the hands you limp with UTG and how they are effected by this flop. Coming back from 10BBs isn't that hard. Sure it isn't easy, but it isn't worth taking this chance right here where you are likely behind 3:1 and getting 2:1 on a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a little glib to say you're "likely behind 3:1." Yes, you are behind 3:1 quite a bit of the time, but how often? Sometimes you are actually ahead here, after all. My sense is that you probably have slightly the worst of it by calling, but that doesn't mean a call is incorrect.

It's not impossible to come back from 10BB, but putting it in those terms ignores the relationship between your stack and the average stack. You're way below average even at the start of this hand, meaning you should be looking for a chance to double up or go home, even if you have to take slightly the worst of it to get that opportunity. Which means you should simply take your shot now rather than folding and trying to grind it out with an even more uncompetitive stack.

[LearnedfromTV]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I have a good definition of inflection point, but it has nothing to do with this hand.



[/ QUOTE ]

In HOH I Harrington gives an example of an "inflection point hand" where you hold QQ on an ace high board and reraise allin after much of your stack is invested despite the fact that the raiser most likely has an ace. He goes through a pot equity calculation - you have 2 outs twice against an ace plus some chance that you are good already.

The "inflection point" part of that hand is that even if the pot odds aren't quite there he argues you need to take your stand there b/c if you fold you will be down to 4000 chips when the chip leader's have 50K. In HoH II terms you are making a very thin call because folding gives you such a low M (as well as a low defined-in-HOH II-and-then-pretty-much-ignored Q, the measure of relative position vs. average stack) that you are in very bad shape. So you call and pray. In the example the guy has JJ -- point made.

I believe this hand is the one the poster is using as comparison for his situation. The difference, as some has noted, is that it is too early to be thinking this way. With around 10x the BB and early in the tournament, if the odds aren't there to call with AK, and I don't think they are, barring a read, fold. There will be better chances.