Misplayed Hand from $100+10 B&M MTT? AQs vs 3 limpers

DonT77 · #1 08-26-2005, 10:20 AM

First level of a B&M MTT. Starting chips = 3000. Blinds at 25/50. 15 minute levels, next levels are 50/100, 100/200, 200/400... so they go up pretty quick. No reads yet except that CO will make small bets with nothing and call large bets with 1 overcard (e.g. A3o with KJ8 on board), and CO-1 slowplayed a flopped nut-straight a few hands ago.

3 limpers to me on the button with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. What would you do here - call or raise?

I called, as I don't like to pwn much when everybody has 60BBs in their stack. (Disagree?)

6-way action, pot = 300. The flop came J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Checked to fishy CO who bets 100. What would you do here? I figure CO could be trying to buy the pot as he has shown this type of play a couple times already, so I think about raising - but with 4 players behind me I decide to just call with my 2 overcards and a gutshot to see what develops. Folded to CO-1 who now check-raises to 500. I think there is a good chance he is trying to buy the pot or has a hand like AT. Fishy CO calls. Pot = 1500, What is my play? (what is your order of preference between folding, calling, and re-raising here?)

fisherman112 · #2 08-26-2005, 10:30 AM

you should have raised this preflop every time. you have nothing on the flop against this check raise. at best you have 7 outs. fold.

betgo · #3 08-26-2005, 10:37 AM

Yeah, you realy misplayed it. Raise the 3 limpers preflop from the button with AQs. You have a strong hand hand position. You have to raise.

Fold to the checkraise on the flop. This is a flop that is likely to have hit a lot of hands. I don't think the checkraise is a bluff. All of your outs may not be good: you may be just drawing to a gutshot. The action tends to be loose the 1st round, so it is not a good time to bluff.

DonT77 · #4 08-26-2005, 12:17 PM

Thanks for the input so far guys. I did fold the flop, but I did think that there was a chance I could get CO-1 and CO off of their hands with a push thus adding over 50% to my stack.

The turn was an ace and the river was a king - making the final board AKJT4. My AQ would have won had I pushed. CO-1 showed KJ - for TPGK ATF. CO showed A7 as I expected. I had a moment of regret - but I do think that results aside, folding was the right play given that (as mentioned) my outs may not have been clean (as when one of the players has AJ, AT, QJ, QT, or a flopped set). It is also worth noting that my read on CO-1 was a little off, his hand was a little stronger than I gave him credit for so I don't know if a push would have got him to fold his hand or not (probably not though).

DonT77 · #5 08-26-2005, 12:32 PM

I do think that a lot of people would have raised here with AQs over 3 limpers. My thinking was that with 225 in the pot already, I would have to raise to probably 400 or so to get the blinds and most of the limpers to fold. In level 1 I am likely to get called much of the time by one or more players. Personally, I don't like to invest 1/7th of my stack early on with an unmade hand like AQs in this type of situation. AQs is the type of hand that likes to see a flop, whereas a hand like TT does not - so with TT, yes - I am putting in a big raise here.

You know - now that I think about it, I probably should push harder with hands that likely dominate my opponents when I have position? Is that the line of thinking I was missing? (light comes on)

Tailgunner · #6 08-26-2005, 12:47 PM

I don't like pushing many hands early on unless they also can play well multi-way. While it's easier to go for it in a ring game where a rebuy is seconds away, I don't like to put myself in a position to get sucked out until the crazies have been eliminated.

I do however plan on getting some extra money in the pot. A 3-4BB bet will still usually be enough to push out the loose limpers with rags while still letting me get away from the hand on a nasty flop and getting me some respect if I fire again.

DonT77 · #7 08-26-2005, 02:42 PM

I see some merits to this idea. I've always wondered why somebody would raise 3-4BBs over 2-3 limpers when clearly they are expecting at least a call or two. The PFR does give a continuation bet more folding equity ATF, and the 3-4BB raise does juice the pot in case you hit something.

So, a possible implication to this play is that if I limp from EP and then a MP limps and then a LP raises 3BBs should I run the Limp Re-Raise to blow him off of his hand - since a real hand like TT-AA would probably raise more than 3-4BBs here?

schwza · #8 08-26-2005, 02:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I see some merits to this idea. I've always wondered why somebody would raise 3-4BBs over 2-3 limpers when clearly they are expecting at least a call or two. The PFR does give a continuation bet more folding equity ATF, and the 3-4BB raise does juice the pot in case you hit something.

So, a possible implication to this play is that if I limp from EP and then a MP limps and then a LP raises 3BBs should I run the Limp Re-Raise to blow him off of his hand - since a real hand like TT-AA would probably raise more than 3-4BBs here?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you have T9o or some such junk, would you want AQs to raise or limp?

Tailgunner · #9 08-26-2005, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So, a possible implication to this play is that if I limp from EP and then a MP limps and then a LP raises 3BBs should I run the Limp Re-Raise to blow him off of his hand - since a real hand like TT-AA would probably raise more than 3-4BBs here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean if you should limp in EP and MP raises 3-4x so that you put him on something like AQ? Nope, because he's happy to isolate you heads-up and the reraise will probably drive out the rest of the field. In your original scenario had I been reraised, THEN I would push. If I get called around then I have the smaller bet as an escape valve on the flop.

betgo · #10 08-26-2005, 07:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I do think that a lot of people would have raised here with AQs over 3 limpers. My thinking was that with 225 in the pot already, I would have to raise to probably 400 or so to get the blinds and most of the limpers to fold. In level 1 I am likely to get called much of the time by one or more players. Personally, I don't like to invest 1/7th of my stack early on with an unmade hand like AQs in this type of situation. AQs is the type of hand that likes to see a flop, whereas a hand like TT does not - so with TT, yes - I am putting in a big raise here.

You know - now that I think about it, I probably should push harder with hands that likely dominate my opponents when I have position? Is that the line of thinking I was missing? (light comes on)

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to raise even if you don't knock anyone out. You have position and probably the best hand.

You could raise to 3xBB if you want, and probably not knock anyone out. I don't mind building the pot here. You are suited in addition to big cards.

You could also make a big raise. I don't mind just taking it down with a big raise. I also don't mind playing it heads up with position and a big pot.

When you let hands like A7 and KJ in cheaply, you are really reducing the value of AQs.