Flop decision

[tansoku]

2/4 10 handed:

Everyone involved is average, meaning no one has done anything noteworthy yet.

SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG, UTG+1 call, 4 folds, CO calls, Button Raises.
I call, everyone else calls.

12 SB on the flop
6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I check with the intent to chk-raise button.

BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 Bets, Button raises
I 3 bet.

I figure 5 outs + BD flush draw, BD str8 draw.
Discount the 5 to maybe 3 or 4 because one or both of these guys might have an A or a J..so 6 outs?
15:1 on a call but I think a 3 bet might fold out everyone but button.

Spewage?

[gh9801]

Looks fine

It's not spewage when you could very likely have the best hand in this large pot. CO could be betting a J or a smaller pair hoping for the Preflop raiser to raise and clear the field for him. Button could easily be raising AK or AQ with overcards and a gutshot trying to thin the field.

Who cares about outs when there is still a very good chance you have the best hand?

3betting is the only option as you must protect your hand in this large pot on a draw heavy flop. You have just been giving the perfect opportunity to force out the other players with the action in front of you so take advantage of it.

If CO has JT for two pair or button has an overpair, so be it. You have to be willing to put in the extra bets to win big pots. Nice hand.

[tyler_cracker]

Nice first post [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Edit: by which i mean, i think this is exactly right.

[krubban]

I would play it the same, the button could raise here with just overcards and a bd flush.

[KDawgCometh]

calling is bad, folding is worse, so yeah, three betting is best. like others have said, its entirely possible that you have the best hand right now, so I'd feel pretty confident in three betting that, I'd slow down if capped

[tansoku]

[ QUOTE ]
If CO has JT for two pair or button has an overpair, so be it. You have to be willing to put in the extra bets to win big pots. Nice hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice read: I managed to fold out 2, it went call, call.
I lead the turn 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] call, call,

At this point I figure flush/str8 draws or AK/AQ type hands.
River is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and I bet.
call, call

UTG+1 shows JT [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to take it down.

I couldn't see slowing down anywhere as I was expecting to get raised by something better than TPTK..

[JacksonTens]

JT [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] went for the overcall and got it, very difficult to see that coming.
I don't think checking the river is correct, what would you have done if uo were raised or stop/goed?

JT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[tansoku]

[ QUOTE ]
JT [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] went for the overcall and got it, very difficult to see that coming.
I don't think checking the river is correct, what would you have done if uo were raised or stop/goed?
JT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if this guy knew what an overcall is.
If I bet and it gets raised and called back to me on the turn I think I'm dead, or very close. I have to figure at least 2 pair, and one of them with an overpair or AK/AQ.
If If my J outs are dirty, I've probably got 2 A outs. If not I can't believe I've got a full 5 outs here, maybe 4 at the most given the action.
Pot is laying me 15:1, average 3 outs, maybe, 14.33:1.
So I think I have to call.
If it's 2 back to me I have to fold it because I have not seen these guys get aggro post flop at all and my odds suck.
I'd probably chk-call the river just because the pot will be something like 18BB at that point...fold it if the action goes chk-bet-raise.
Don't know any other line here, maybe someone else does..