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#1
08-19-2005, 10:46 AM
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Good enough to make a move?
2 table NL $20 tourney. I have been playing fairly aggressively at the final table. Blinds are $75 / $150 and I have about $2000. There are 7 players left. Two players at the table have $4000 -- the rest have less than or the same as me.
1st hand: I am in 3rd position. 1st player folds. second Player goes all in for about $1000. I have 8-8 and raise All-in for $2000. Everyone else folds. He has 7-9. The Board comes Q-10-Q-10-3 and his nine high beats my 8 high. I have about $1,000 left. Second Hand I get A-J. I am Second to act I raise All-in for about $1,000 and everyone folds and I win the blinds. Third Hand -- I get A-8 offsuit and have to act under the gun. I have about $1,250 and the blinds hit me next at $75/150. Do you think I should move all in against 6 other players for the third time in a row, or fold because I have been so agressive and a lot of people have a chance to enter the pot -- and A-8 isn't such a great hand? 
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#2
08-19-2005, 10:56 AM
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Re: Good enough to make a move?
[ QUOTE ]
2 table NL $20 tourney. I have been playing fairly aggressively at the final table. Blinds are $75 / $150 and I have about $2000. There are 7 players left. Two players at the table have $4000 -- the rest have less than or the same as me. 1st hand: I am in 3rd position. 1st player folds. second Player goes all in for about $1000. I have 8-8 and raise All-in for $2000. Everyone else folds. He has 7-9. The Board comes Q-10-Q-10-3 and his nine high beats my 8 high. I have about $1,000 left. Second Hand I get A-J. I am Second to act I raise All-in for about $1,000 and everyone folds and I win the blinds. Third Hand -- I get A-8 offsuit and have to act under the gun. I have about $1,250 and the blinds hit me next at $75/150. Do you think I should move all in against 6 other players for the third time in a row, or fold because I have been so agressive and a lot of people have a chance to enter the pot -- and A-8 isn't such a great hand? [/ QUOTE ] If you move in at this spot you are dead money at the table. The AJ was an iffy decision. 75-150 is not panic time There are a lot of opportunities to steal after the blinds pass you.
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#3
08-19-2005, 11:05 AM
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Re: Good enough to make a move?
Move all in with A-8 o/s UTG? With a million people left to act? When they already see you as a bully? With enough chips left to still play some poker?
I can't see why not, go for it. At least they're offsuit, that way you get a chance at TWO flushes...
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#4
08-19-2005, 12:10 PM
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Re: Good enough to make a move?
[ QUOTE ]
The AJ was an iffy decision. 75-150 is not panic time There are a lot of opportunities to steal after the blinds pass you. [/ QUOTE ] If I hadn't raised the last two hands, is it still such a clear fold? If I have $1250 in chips, then my M when blinds are 75/150 is 5.5. If I don't get lucky when i'm in the blinds I'll have 1025 and my M will be 4.5. In the next few hands blinds go to 100/200 and I have an M of approx 3. 2 players at the table have 4000 in chips and easily afford to call. If I had the appearance of being a tight player, would it still be bad to raise all-in UTG with A-8 offsuit? And what should I have done with A-J with $1000 chips? raised to 450 and folded if reraised? why?
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#5
08-19-2005, 12:24 PM
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Re: Good enough to make a move?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The AJ was an iffy decision. 75-150 is not panic time There are a lot of opportunities to steal after the blinds pass you. [/ QUOTE ] If I hadn't raised the last two hands, is it still such a clear fold? If I have $1250 in chips, then my M when blinds are 75/150 is 5.5. If I don't get lucky when i'm in the blinds I'll have 1025 and my M will be 4.5. In the next few hands blinds go to 100/200 and I have an M of approx 3. 2 players at the table have 4000 in chips and easily afford to call. If I had the appearance of being a tight player, would it still be bad to raise all-in UTG with A-8 offsuit? And what should I have done with A-J with $1000 chips? raised to 450 and folded if reraised? why? [/ QUOTE ] There is about 10x as much equity IMO to pushing with 72o from the button or the small blind. It will surely be folded around to you in one of those spots. Where the big stacks are in relation to you and who is in the BB does matter and those things were not mentioned in your original post.
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#6
08-19-2005, 12:33 PM
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Re: Good enough to make a move?
[ QUOTE ]
Move all in with A-8 o/s UTG? With a million people left to act? When they already see you as a bully? With enough chips left to still play some poker? I can't see why not, go for it. At least they're offsuit, that way you get a chance at TWO flushes... [/ QUOTE ] Sarcasm? I hope so. I see nothing wrong with the play here. Yes, it is panic time given his stack size. You still probably have fold equity against 4 of your opponents (exception being the two 4000+ stacks). Push. At this point, you gotta get a little lucky. You don't have enough chips to wait for a big hand or maneuver with anything but all-in moves. Plus, this table is 7-handed, so the blinds are coming around more frequently. As for already being seen as a bully...how's that a bad thing? It usually results in your all-ins getting called by a much broader range of hands. After all, don't you want to get called by a weaker hand?
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#7
08-19-2005, 12:39 PM
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Re: Good enough to make a move?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Move all in with A-8 o/s UTG? With a million people left to act? When they already see you as a bully? With enough chips left to still play some poker? I can't see why not, go for it. At least they're offsuit, that way you get a chance at TWO flushes... [/ QUOTE ] Sarcasm? I hope so. I see nothing wrong with the play here. Yes, it is panic time given his stack size. You still probably have fold equity against 4 of your opponents (exception being the two 4000+ stacks). Push. At this point, you gotta get a little lucky. You don't have enough chips to wait for a big hand or maneuver with anything but all-in moves. Plus, this table is 7-handed, so the blinds are coming around more frequently. As for already being seen as a bully...how's that a bad thing? It usually results in your all-ins getting called by a much broader range of hands. After all, don't you want to get called by a weaker hand? [/ QUOTE ] You can pick who you want to listen to. "The 12x BB I have to move all in rule" that is true for big MTT tournaments does not hold in my experience with SNG's. I've only played around 1,000 though. You will have a much better chance to get lucky if you wait till you are in a better position. Try to focus on your position and stealing the blinds and see how you do
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#8
08-19-2005, 12:47 PM
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Re: Good enough to make a move?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Move all in with A-8 o/s UTG? With a million people left to act? When they already see you as a bully? With enough chips left to still play some poker? I can't see why not, go for it. At least they're offsuit, that way you get a chance at TWO flushes... [/ QUOTE ] Sarcasm? I hope so. I see nothing wrong with the play here. Yes, it is panic time given his stack size. You still probably have fold equity against 4 of your opponents (exception being the two 4000+ stacks). Push. At this point, you gotta get a little lucky. You don't have enough chips to wait for a big hand or maneuver with anything but all-in moves. Plus, this table is 7-handed, so the blinds are coming around more frequently. As for already being seen as a bully...how's that a bad thing? It usually results in your all-ins getting called by a much broader range of hands. After all, don't you want to get called by a weaker hand? [/ QUOTE ] You can pick who you want to listen to. "The 12x BB I have to move all in rule" that is true for big MTT tournaments does not hold in my experience with SNG's. I've only played around 1,000 though. You will have a much better chance to get lucky if you wait till you are in a better position. Try to focus on your position and stealing the blinds and see how you do [/ QUOTE ] True about difference between SNG's and MTT's...point taken. But, he's at around 8x BB at a 7-handed table. With 4 other relatively short stacks at the table, the problem with waiting for a hand in position is that you'll likely find yourself facing all-in bets from earlier position players. As you know, it's better to be open pushing with a wider range of hands than calling all-in bets. You did mention that the location of the stacks was important--that's a good point. If the 2 big stacks are to your left, it hurts your opportunity to open steal from late position, imo.
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#9
08-19-2005, 12:59 PM
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Re: Good enough to make a move?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Move all in with A-8 o/s UTG? With a million people left to act? When they already see you as a bully? With enough chips left to still play some poker? I can't see why not, go for it. At least they're offsuit, that way you get a chance at TWO flushes... [/ QUOTE ] Sarcasm? I hope so. I see nothing wrong with the play here. Yes, it is panic time given his stack size. You still probably have fold equity against 4 of your opponents (exception being the two 4000+ stacks). Push. At this point, you gotta get a little lucky. You don't have enough chips to wait for a big hand or maneuver with anything but all-in moves. Plus, this table is 7-handed, so the blinds are coming around more frequently. As for already being seen as a bully...how's that a bad thing? It usually results in your all-ins getting called by a much broader range of hands. After all, don't you want to get called by a weaker hand? [/ QUOTE ] You can pick who you want to listen to. "The 12x BB I have to move all in rule" that is true for big MTT tournaments does not hold in my experience with SNG's. I've only played around 1,000 though. You will have a much better chance to get lucky if you wait till you are in a better position. Try to focus on your position and stealing the blinds and see how you do [/ QUOTE ] True about difference between SNG's and MTT's...point taken. But, he's at around 8x BB at a 7-handed table. With 4 other relatively short stacks at the table, the problem with waiting for a hand in position is that you'll likely find yourself facing all-in bets from earlier position players. As you know, it's better to be open pushing with a wider range of hands than calling all-in bets. You did mention that the location of the stacks was important--that's a good point. If the 2 big stacks are to your left, it hurts your opportunity to open steal from late position, imo. [/ QUOTE ] My thoughts exactly, pick up Harrington on Hold'em for some other important factors
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