live T8s hand

[Che]

Tunica WSOP Circuit $340 NL

Second Level, Blinds 25/50, 10-handed (Starting Chips=1500)

2 folds, I have 2050 chips and T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and open for 150 (standard), folded to button (3200) who calls, blinds fold.

Reads

Me: I have built my stack without showdown. I haven't been reckless, but I've been a little more aggressive than average thus far (i.e. not enough to label me as LAGGY, I could easily just be playing my cards as far as they know).

I have voluntarily showed three hands (very unusual, I was experimenting): an SB open-raise with AT that got the blinds, bottom set that I bet on a two-suited AJ5 6-limper flop (everyone folded [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]), and a HU flop against the villain in this hand when I made a continutation bet on a Kxx flop and then showed a K.

Button: Appears to be one of the two best players at the table (the other is to his immediate right). Seems like a solid TAG, but it's still too early to know for sure. I think he's good enough that he won't double me up with junk and also good enough to use his position to try to outplay me postflop.

General: EP raises have been getting LOTS of respect, and this is only the second EP raise I have made.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (Pot=375)

Check, check.

Turn: T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet 350, call.

River: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (Pot=1075)

(REM: I have 1550 left. He has me covered by 1000+.)

Check, he bets 550, I fold.

I had reasons for all my actions, but I'm not sure I like them now that I've had more time to think through the hand.

However, I'd like to get unbiased reactions from you guys first then I'll share my postflop reasoning later.

As for the preflop raise, I had two motivations:

1. I had been pretty quiet for a couple of orbits so I thought I had a decent chance of stealing or getting HU with the BB for an easy continutation bet win.
2. If I did get a caller or two, they would never put me on T8s so I would probably bust someone if I flopped hard.

Comments on all streets (except preflop [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) welcome...

Thanks,
Che

[woodguy]

Quick take:

If you have shown all your continuation bet hands to be real, why not lead the flop?

Regards,
Woodguy

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have shown all your continuation bet hands to be real, why not lead the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question, but I'm going to save my answer for a little while yet.

Any thoughts on the turn or river?

Later,
Che

[woodguy]

I think you have to check/fold the river based on how you got there. edit: your still beating the draws, but even a blocking bet is damaging to your stack. I could be convince to make a blocking bet here, but based on how the hand went down I'm not sure.

Turn: I think this card gives you 8-14 outs, so you really want to see the river. If you check you may get there for free, or call a similar sized bet to the one you made, but you can't call a raise so I just check there.

If it backfires and he pots its on the turn, I may give up there, so there are pros and cons to checking.

I think betting the flop makes everything easier, you can fold to raise on the flop, or push overtop if you think that your image combined with your draw is enough.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have shown all your continuation bet hands to be real,

[/ QUOTE ]

I had not shown all my continuation bets. I didn't show my first 2 or three, but the three I had shown were fairly recent.

I had made continuation bets on all my prelop raises but one. I checked QTT w 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] out of position against 2 callers and they checked behind. I led out on an offsuit J turn and took it down without showing. I think the villain in this hand was one of the callers in that hand (which was my only other EP open-raise).

Later,
Che

[schwza]

i think pre-flop is fine.

i'd bet the flop. if you did have an ace, you'd bet pretty frequently with the draws out. also, you've shown you can make a continuation bet when you hit. yes, it sucks to get raised, but it also sucks to check and get bet into.

i like the bet on the turn. i'd bet a little less. you look like you missed your c/r with an A and are now scared of the scary board.

river looks good.

[Che]

Anyone like a turn check-raise?

[MLG]

Preflop fine.

Flop, I bet here 100% of the time. You like taking the pot. You don't mind getting called, and if you get raised you can decide whether to muck/call/push. You're not short enough to cr all-in on the flop, so you are probably just planning on calling if he bets, but that makes it easy for him to play lots of mediocre hands to showdown by checking behind on the turn and calling a bet on the river. Makes it hard to bluff if you miss and hard to get paid off big if you hit.

Had you bet the flop, I would love the turn cr. Here, i just don't find it that believable. What big made hand are you checking twice on that board? If you want to make a play at the pot here, I would lead the river instead of playing back on the turn. Given the action though, a J from him wouldn't surprise me and I have no problem with a river fold.

[betgo]

Preflop, raising with suited gappers from early position is fine if that's your style.

Why not bet the flop. You reprented an ace by raising preflop. You have a strong hand at this point with the flush draw.

I guess the bet on the turn is OK, but your draw is much weaker now.

[Jason Strasser]

Che,

I'm a little confused. I think your flop/turn combination confuses me a bit. You really are not getting any ace to fold, but you also make a pair on the turn which is probably good versus the range of hands, and you have a draw. I think your bet on the turn gets some hands with 2-7 outs to fold, and MAYBE a jack... But if you arent trying to get a jack to fold here specifically I think you are probably better off with betting less or even checking the turn. The problem here is that if the player is good he may raise your turn bet with lots of hands and you will get priced out of your draw, or be forced to make a stand (after you look into his soul).

I probably either bet the flop and go from there, or check the flop and the turn.

-Jason