Bottom pair Ace kicker vs maniac, out of position

[DrewOnTilt]

Ugh. I need help in the following situation:

I limp in or get a free play from the blinds, flop a decent but not great hand, bet and get raised by a maniac or a habitual bluff raiser.

These people do not generally fold when shown more aggression, but I continually find myself in situations like the hand below.

Villain is very loose preflop - 46% VPIP. Postflop he loves to raise in position on draws, with ace high, or with absolutely nothing. Overall AF is 2.12, not extremely high by any means, but his raising standards are very odd.

After this hand, I commented that the poker gods were smiling on him, and he replied something like, "No, I've just played too many times with you." I'm actually marginally ahead of him in 800 or so hands, and he is quite down overall, but he seems to think that I can be bullied.

I need a better line that the passive one that I took. He raised the flop with something that didn't even resemble a hand at the time, but what can I do here? Help, please.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.16 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.16 BB

[Nick C]

Calling down with marginal hands versus a maniac is all right, in my opinion. (During my 2/4 days, I did it -- not all that infrequently -- with king-high.)

I think your play in the hand is fine.

Edit: Your hand's not all that good, and you don't know where you stand and have no way of finding out, but you've got some showdown value with your 7's.

That flop bet is ok?

[weevil]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh. I need help in the following situation:

I limp in or get a free play from the blinds, flop a decent but not great hand, bet and get raised by a maniac or a habitual bluff raiser.

These people do not generally fold when shown more aggression, but I continually find myself in situations like the hand below.

Villain is very loose preflop - 46% VPIP. Postflop he loves to raise in position on draws, with ace high, or with absolutely nothing. Overall AF is 2.12, not extremely high by any means, but his raising standards are very odd.

After this hand, I commented that the poker gods were smiling on him, and he replied something like, "No, I've just played too many times with you." I'm actually marginally ahead of him in 800 or so hands, and he is quite down overall, but he seems to think that I can be bullied.

I need a better line that the passive one that I took. He raised the flop with something that didn't even resemble a hand at the time, but what can I do here? Help, please.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.16 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.16 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a clear flop CR.

[DrewOnTilt]

Heh, middle pair not bottom pair. My brain is such mush right now that in my book 7 is less than 5.

[ QUOTE ]
Calling down with marginal hands versus a maniac is all right, in my opinion.

I think your play in the hand is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, I am just having trouble adapting to playing the maniac and not the board. I just moved up to 3/6 within the last 2 weeks and am doing poorly. I've found that the aggressive fucktards are getting the better of me.

This guy was 2 to my left with a rock and an unknown in between us, so I had position on him most hands. When I was OOP against him, though, I had a lot of trouble.

I found myself donking through hands such as the one in this post and another where I held J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and a turn board of A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I had bet the flop, got called twice, checked the turn and of course the maniac bet when it was checked to him.

Ugh. I feel I am donking off way too much money to these guys. Major hole in my game.

Small stakes posters, do your worst on me, please.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
That flop bet is ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no. Weevil's flop checkraise idea is better, I think.

That's a more efficient way to isolate the maniac, and you have more information at the point when you're making the checkraise that way.

[tyler_cracker]

If Villain is so aggressive, why not c/r and face (most of) the field with 2?

If Villain doesn't bow to aggression, i don't see what other line you can take here. I don't think it's a good idea to raise with a marginal hand with 5 (maybe even fewer) outs on a board that gets scarier and scarier.

I have a hard time folding the turn against a wanker like this, though i also think that's probably a good idea with just second pair.

Did he really turn over, like, QJ? That sucks.

[Nick C]

I should mention that I think checking the flop is better than betting here. (I was focusing more on the action once the hand got heads-up.)

Anyway, though, heads-up against a maniac (and I sometimes go out of my way trying to get heads-up with him), if I like my hand, I keep betting and raising (until I decide maybe I don't like it that much anymore). If I only sort of like it, I won't push as hard. But he is going to have a hard time getting me to fold.

Against the extreme manaics I sometimes encountered at 2/4, I did my fair share of isolating preflop and then calling down with king-high.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
If Villain is so aggressive, why not c/r and face (most of) the field with 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line having thought about it a bit.

[ QUOTE ]
Did he really turn over, like, QJ? That sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even worse. He turned over T9o for the runner runner straight [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]
Even worse. He turned over T9o for the runner runner straight [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It's nice to know that i can hit runner runner straight if i just "play too many times with you". [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]