Cold Calling on the Button

[Kyle]

I breifly watched last night's 2+2 game and I noticed Bicyclekick doing something that I almost never do. He was cold calling raises on the button with hands like QJo and A9o. Usually if I am in a sitituation like that it is three bet or fold preflop. What is the merit to cold calling instead of three betting? And also what kind of sitituation do I need to look for to make this play profitable?

[wrto4556]

You can take the pot away from the raiser if the flop comes down rags.

I think its better than 3-betting because you get to see the flop and action before you decide to try and steal.

Im not completely sure, though.

[DcifrThs]

how would you feel if you raised KTo and a good player cold called the raise on the button?

bk was experimenting a lot with "floating" (cold calling on teh button with the intention of taking the pot) alot last night.

i think against good players its a good change up. but it gives up to much when you simply fold the flop to a bet. which you have to do a lot of the time.

-Barron

[TStoneMBD]

dci, doesnt coldcalling give away information unless you are doing it a correct percentage of the time with all the other hands? it seems more deceptive to me to simply 3bet regularly with those hands. by coldcalling, it forces you to coldcall with premium hands as well which probably does not extract maximum value. if i was open-raising with KTo and a strong button player coldcalled i think i would hate it just as much as if he just 3bet me instead.

to me, it seems that the only way coldcalling on the button as opposed to raising is profitable is if the openraiser has an exploitable weakness in that he cannot play in this situation as well as if you had simply 3bet him. however, this doesnt seem logical to me as players as strong as the ones you are doing it against should have plugged this leak.

of course, if you generally coldcall with hands that have negative hot and cold equity and play them because you feel that you have implied odds, you would have reduced those implied odds by inflating the pot preflop with hands that are of less value than the open-raisers standards. however of course, we know that hot and cold equity isnt that important in this situation and if you are making a habit of coldcalling with marginal hands and threebetting powerful hands you are leaving yourself open to exploitation.

if you guys are coldcalling a TAG's openraises, i think it would make more sense to coldcall with every hand that you would normally 3bet, or completely randomize whether you coldcall or 3bet. i dont think your line here should be based on what cards you are holding as this seems very exploitable to me. of course, i really dont know exactly what method you guys are using to determine when coldcalling is appropriate which is why i am asking you to please elaborate on this for me.

if you think that you gain an advantage by coldcalling as opposed to raising, do you feel that advantage is reduced by allowing the blinds better odds to enter the pot? what do you think your EV is of coldcalling as opposed to 3betting in these situations? what do you think your EV is reduced to after considering the +EV you are giving to the blinds by allowing them a better price to enter the pot?

also, since you are finding that coldcalling is a vital weapon in your games against each other, do you feel that players below this level are not coldcalling enough? for a player like me, when should i be coldcalling on the button instead of simply 3betting? i am not big on playing marginal hands behind an open raiser. does this mean that i need to improve on my ability to play marginal hands in these situations, or is this simply a tactic that you really only find necessary in the toughest of games?

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
how would you feel if you raised KTo and a good player cold called the raise on the button?

[/ QUOTE ]

How would you feel if you raised KTo and a good player 3-bet the raise on the button?

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
if you are making a habit of coldcalling with marginal hands and threebetting powerful hands you are leaving yourself open to exploitation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. If you're floating with hands like A4s, QJo, 77, JTs, etc. what difference does it make if your opponent can correctly eliminate AA-JJ, AK/AQ from your range? The idea is to use position and reading skills to take the pot away when the raiser misses. You need to be in the hand to do that.

I think the preflop 'pump it or dump it' rule is generally good, but at a certain level, coldcalling becomes okay again. One other inverse benefit is that your 3-bets will get more respect.

[TStoneMBD]

i dont think that you want your 3bets to get more respect if your opponents can correctly factor that the likelyhood of you having a powerhouse is far more likely and the likelyhood of you holding a marginal hand is unlikely since you would have just coldcalled with it instead. this will probably cause you to see a decline in your winrate with your big pairs. you may see a progression in your winrate with the bottom-end of your 3betting range, but id guess not enough to off-set your losses from your profits on the bigger hands, not to mention your losses from being easily read that you coldcall with marginal holdings.

[Lestat]

You're assuming that the opening raiser won't be able to adjust post-flop. Good players can and will adjust and eventually punish such silliness.

Also, I see no play you can make after floating that you couldn't make after 3-betting. You're simply saying you can represent more hands, but if that's your strategy this can still be accomplished by 3-betting as well. This will give you even more ways to win and more flops you can represent.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how would you feel if you raised KTo and a good player cold called the raise on the button?

[/ QUOTE ]

How would you feel if you raised KTo and a good player 3-bet the raise on the button?

[/ QUOTE ]

touche.

-Barron

[The Truth]

There were a couple threads awhile back about floating.

link:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...933&Forum=