Am I crazy? I just folded top pair in a huge pot...

Aaron W. · #1 08-16-2005, 09:33 PM

Button is a bit TAGgish, but is often very weak after raising preflop. I think he's playing a very fit-or-fold sort of game. Of four hands where he has raised preflop, only followed up with a flop bet on one of them, and folded before seeing a showdown for three of them (with flops like QJx, Axx, and 432.

Button is a loose and aggressive, but he only stands out as a true LAG when it's heads up. He 3-bet the flop and turn heads up with only a flush draw and bluffed the river (didn't even have overcards). If I had more time, I would post the little battles he had with me (I was playing my A+ hand-reading game against him).

The other guy is a super loose-passive donk. He has called a river bet and failed to beat bottom pair at showdown more than once.

I've got to run off to a meeting, so I can't sit around and tend this thread. I think the play on every postflop street is pretty interesting and not necessarily correct.

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, SB caps, BB calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (16 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls, Button raises, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, BB folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 18 BB

bozlax · #2 08-16-2005, 09:52 PM

I guess the preflop call is ok. I'm not in love with it, tho, if Button is at all TAGgish.

SB is the idiot, right? Given your read on Button, when SB bets into you I think you raise to try and drive Button out.

Since Button stayed in, I think it's pretty clear that your 8 is dominated, and you should fold the turn with only 3 outs.

When you don't fold on the turn, I think you're committed to calling one on the river, closing the action.

There. I agree, with the exception of preflop (maybe, only maybe) I think you blew it on every street. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Of course, what do I know?

teajay · #3 08-16-2005, 09:59 PM

I'm guessing you mean SB is the loose agressive and the "other guy" is the BB.

I normally don't raise this PF, but either way...

I personally don't like the PF call when it's capped. I know you're getting 6:1, but you really need to get a flush or two pair to win this I think.

That being said, I would probably fold the turn.

Call me weak, but I just don't like this hand.

macdaddy991 · #4 08-16-2005, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Buttonis a bit TAGgish, but is often very weak after raising preflop. I think he's playing a very fit-or-fold sort of game. Of four hands where he has raised preflop, only followed up with a flop bet on one of them, and folded before seeing a showdown for three of them (with flops like QJx, Axx, and 432.

Buttonis a loose and aggressive, but he only stands out as a true LAG when it's heads up. He 3-bet the flop and turn heads up with only a flush draw and bluffed the river (didn't even have overcards). If I had more time, I would post the little battles he had with me (I was playing my A+ hand-reading game against him).

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is who?

Also with your reads, would a bet on the turn, followed by the LAG raise force the TAG to call 2 cold, therefore gaining you fold equity? The SB will donk call with crap anyway, so you may kill two birds with one stone.

teajay · #5 08-16-2005, 10:00 PM

BAH! Seems like I keep posting after you on eveyr hand tonight with almost the same reply. I AM posting blindly, I swear! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

macdaddy991 · #6 08-16-2005, 10:01 PM

FWIW, I am reading that the BB is the TAG, and the button is the LAG.

badbill7 · #7 08-16-2005, 10:04 PM

sorry but i hate this play. all around. maybey make a decent argument for pre flop but you didnt even try to protect your hand. i would have led out immediatly and then probably reraised a raise at some point. fold was the worst mistake you made. call that for one bet on river

badbill7 · #8 08-16-2005, 10:19 PM

Well i just talked to my poker advisor and as usual i am totally wrong so i detract my last post before i get a new one ripped. Also per usual i didnt really see all of post due to my ignorance. Now i dont think i can disagree with much of anything here. Good call preflop because of pot size. If fewer opponents i hesitate on calling the cap. You cant really protect here at any point and good river fold since you would be overcalling. Wish this was all my own advice but i am just spewing what my mentor is telling me to write. Maybey someday ill stop being a lag myself and come up with a decent post reply on my own

war rereading ssh for the eigth time and hoping something sticks

baronzeus · #9 08-16-2005, 10:24 PM

I think you are drawing dead on the turn, but if you don't agree, the rest of the hand is fine.

teajay · #10 08-16-2005, 10:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If fewer opponents i hesitate on calling the cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask your mentor which opponent was supposed to fold (other than you): The 3-better or the guy who decided to cap? The super-loose passive player is hardly providing enough padding here I would think.

The point I'm trying to make is that if you raise, another player decides to three bet and then it gets capped and you include yourself, that's 3 opponents who are certain to be in this hand. I don't think adding one super-loose player to the mix provides the needed overlay.