Call this Flop - Raise this River?

mojobluesman · #1 08-15-2005, 09:29 AM

Do I have enough outs to call this flop?

I have an A overcard, but the Ac puts 3 clubs on the board.

I have an inside STR8 draw, but the Kc puts 3 clubs on the board.

I have a backdoor flush draw with the j clubs.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Button calls, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

davelin · #2 08-15-2005, 09:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do I have enough outs to call this flop?

I have an A overcard, but the Ac puts 3 clubs on the board.

I have an inside STR8 draw, but the Kc puts 3 clubs on the board.

I have a backdoor flush draw with the j clubs.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Button calls, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd probably fold this flop. You can't really count your backdoor J-flush as outs.

Edit - Crap I can't see double-gutters.

imported_The Vibesman · #3 08-15-2005, 09:33 AM

It's not a gutshot. Either a 9 or a K gives you a straight. So yes, I think you have the odds to call.

2nd edit: You know, looking at it now, I like leading this river.

mojobluesman · #4 08-15-2005, 09:34 AM

Thanks. I forgot I had the 9 working for me also.

jnh24 · #5 08-15-2005, 09:36 AM

Hero is double-gutted. The non-club Ks are clean and the non-club 9s are at least a split. Throw in the 2 non-club As and you have enough to see the turn.

I think.

jnh24 · #6 08-15-2005, 09:37 AM

Does anyone else overcall this river?

davelin · #7 08-15-2005, 09:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else overcall this river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I would.

mojobluesman · #8 08-15-2005, 09:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Crap I can't see double-gutters.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way, I miss them from time to time.

Would you mind giving me a guesstimate as to how many outs I actually had?

3 non club Ks = 3
3 non club 9s = 3
2 non club A = 1?
backdoor flush = 1?
K/9 clubs = 1? (There is no certainty that either would have made a flush)

MrWookie47 · #9 08-15-2005, 09:48 AM

I like either leading this river or going for overcalls. I would vomit if three bets went in.

jnh24 · #10 08-15-2005, 09:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Would you mind giving me a guesstimate as to how many outs I actually had?

3 non club Ks = 3
3 non club 9s = 3
2 non club A = 1?
backdoor flush = 1?
K/9 clubs = 1? (There is no certainty that either would have made a flush)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have to discount the non club 9s for the times you chop. The BD flush is under 1...at best, you will have the 2nd nut flush.

3 kings, 2 nines, 1.5 aces, 0.5 BD flush, 1 A/K/9 clubs.
Maybe 8, tops?