"Protecting Your Hand" with JJ. Am I misunderstanding the concept?

#1 08-15-2005, 03:27 AM

A few days ago I posted a hand where I had TT with no backdoor draws. I didn't re-raise the flop because I knew it would just be met with call-call. Some people argued that TT had such a large pot equity that it would profit from every additional flop raise. (Even though doing so would result in the flop raiser check-calling me on the turn, instead of me re-raising him to get in two double bets.)

Now the hand is JJ and instead of only 2 other players (like with my TT hand), there are 5 other players.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

I don't like my flop play at all. I should have continuation bet that flop. All I'm really worried about on that rainbow flop is someone with a Q, K, A, or 89 drawing out on me. Maybe someone would have re-raised me with their pair of tens. Whenever I'm in a situation like this with JJ or TT with no backdoor, I tend to hope for a safe card on the turn before betting. After the hand I keep wondering... am I misunderstanding what Miller and Sklansky mean by protecting your hand?

The turn obviously wasn't a scare card (unless someone had 89), so I sprung into action. It didn't look like a check-raise would be successful here with the mild action on the flop.

See... if I were in LP and someone in EP raised... then the call would make sense and I could re-raise the turn if it wasn't a scare card. But here I'm in EP. Why I didn't bet out the flop... I don't know. I wasn't thinking, I guess.

cold_cash · #2 08-15-2005, 03:41 AM

Yeah, I think you're misunderstanding.

A bet or raise that "protects your hand" is one that puts your opponents in a lose/lose situation. They can either call (incorrectly) with the worst of it, or they can fold and give up their chance to win the pot. (When they make incorrect calls is when you make money.)

Now, sometimes the pot will be so big that every Tom, Dick and Harry will be able to call profitably no matter what you do. In your hand example, there are 12 bets in the pot on the flop. If you bet, everyone behind you will be getting at least 13:1 to call, meaning there are many, many draws that can profitably call.

You can't "protect" your hand by betting the flop; but you should still bet anyway. Why? Because if you check you could be giving everyone a FREE chance to draw out on you, which bites. Sure, an Ace might come on the turn, and an opponent holding Ax might be right to call getting >13:1, but don't let him get there for free. He might have the odds to call, but you're still the favorite to win.

Sometimes you can't "protect" your hand. You just have to bet and hope they all miss.

Fryguy · #3 08-15-2005, 05:13 AM

Since you were pf aggressor here, I think you need to bet out. There is too great a chance that it checks around.

In this situation though, with BB betting out right after you, I would consider check-raising the turn and trapping everyone who stays for 2 bets. You have an incredible hand at this point, with lots of outs to a fh even if somebody does have the super unlikely 89.