KK UTG first hand 8 handed

AlphaWice · #1 08-14-2005, 12:37 PM

KK utg 8handed level 1 limps, 2 calls, LP raises to 250

your line?

kyro · #2 08-14-2005, 12:54 PM

You're going to have to do better than that. Blinds?

Tailgunner · #3 08-14-2005, 12:55 PM

Push. You'll probably eliminate the other two limpers and get heads-up with LP, which is a great place to be... and if you do get more than one caller you're still in a great spot to grab a huge lead early. Well worth the risk of getting caught by rockets. If all fold I'll probably show 'em to make 'em feel good about laying down, pick up some respect and start setting myself up in a position to defend my blinds and make some early steals, unless it's a low-stakes tourney where the fish are likely to call down anyway.

AlphaWice · #4 08-14-2005, 01:01 PM

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You're going to have to do better than that. Blinds?

[/ QUOTE ]

i said it was level 1.. blinds 10/20

Can a case be made for folding? I remember seeing a slansky chart somewhere

Dave D · #5 08-14-2005, 01:05 PM

I'm definatly not folding. You need to give us how the table has been playing, reads, your stack, his stack, do you think the other people will fold to his raise etc.

You don't even tell us your action as UTG before the raises.

This can't be the first hand of the tourney if you are 8 handed, that makes no sense.

I'm probably calling the raise and expect it to go HU. I'm probably check raising all in any flop without an ace.

AlphaWice · #6 08-14-2005, 01:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm definatly not folding. You need to give us how the table has been playing, reads, your stack, his stack, do you think the other people will fold to his raise etc.

You don't even tell us your action as UTG before the raises.

This can't be the first hand of the tourney if you are 8 handed, that makes no sense.

I'm probably calling the raise and expect it to go HU. I'm probably check raising all in any flop without an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

it is the first hand of tourney, its a 15 player tourney

#7 08-14-2005, 01:18 PM

early steals are worthless, that would be a very bad show

stevepa · #8 08-14-2005, 01:26 PM

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Can a case be made for folding? I remember seeing a slansky chart somewhere

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You're joking right? A raise that big is often a guy with a middle pair. Just push and hope he calls. If he has aces, move on to the next tournament.

Steve

Tailgunner · #9 08-14-2005, 01:47 PM

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early steals are worthless, that would be a very bad show

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... I'm interested in why you think so, as I don't consider a chance to snag even a single chip as worthless. Perhaps I would agree with you if I relied too much on my expectation of the results, but keep in mind that this is just the first move in a complicated ballet that will depend very much on relative positions and the reactions to my subsequent bets.

Early in a tournament I am often willing to throw those winnings back in the pot to find out who is nibbling at the bait, who is swallowing it whole, and who is too wary to be suckered in.

If they bite, great.. I have more chips to finance more exploration. If they don't, I haven't lost anything overall and still have information.

What outcome do you see that would make this play so bad?

AlphaWice · #10 08-14-2005, 02:31 PM

I remember there was a chart that told you the odds. I would like to consult real math to make my decisions instead of just "omg KK second best hand!!"

Suppose blinds are 1/2 and you are in for 2, with a stack of x. Suppose your opponent also has stack size of x, and pushes all in for x. With KK, what is a bound of x before you can fold?