Trying for the Other Kind of Sklansky Bucks...

#1 08-09-2005, 11:48 PM

...the kind you can spend. The kind he talks about on pp.140-45 of ToP. The idea is to get callers between you and the probable bettor.

Anyway, the naked aggression usually advocated here has, no offense, convinced me that there is a time and a place to look weak. An excellent opportunity arose tonight, so I went for it.

Flame away, if you must, but I'm really posting this as a way to argue in favor of the occasional playing possum, as you will see from my comments on my thinking.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter

Button ($89.85)
SB ($120.51)
BB ($95)
UTG ($98.50)
Hero ($144.82)
MP1 ($238.52)
MP2 ($103.65)
CO ($120)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, 1 fold, BB raises to $1, UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, MP2 calls $1, Button calls $1.

Flop: ($10.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)

I am third of five to act, so a check raise is not going to be possible if someone bets before me.

BB bets $1,

This is one of those ridiculous "I'm drawing" or "I wanna stay around cheap bets that just invites top pair to raise.

UTG folds, Hero calls $1, ("Don't mind me, I'm just a harmless little limper." I'm hoping for everybody to stay in, but, realistically, someone has a queen and is going to raise; in the meantime, maybe I'll collect some cheap calls, and maybe someone will call the raise before it gets back to me).

MP2 raises to $10,

Here's the queen; now I'm just hoping for a caller or two.

Button folds, BB folds, Hero raises to $30,
I actually considered just calling, but decided to play it safe and go ahead and pull the trigger on the raise.

MP2 calls $20.

The rest is straightforward

Turn: ($71.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $50, MP2 raises to $71.65 (All-In) Hero calls $21.65.

River: ($143.15) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $143.15

Ideally, some folks get trapped between me and the bettor, but it didn't work out that way. Still, I believe this is the sort of situation where this play is more +EV than simply re-raising the original $1 bet. I do that, and MP2 here, I think, slows down and I don't wind up with his stack. But seeing people limping and folding was telling him this was his pot, and so he thought, I think, my raise was a bluff at a pot that had gotten big enough to stab at.

So I think that call/reraise netted me more money than my usual betting out of a set, and also had the (unrealized) potential of trapping some additional callers.

Comments?

fimbulwinter · #2 08-10-2005, 08:11 PM

my opinion on this line is that it's high variance, low return. you can try it if you really know your opponents and have a better board, but your line can really get you in trouble when a 23478 or 9 peels and he hits what you don't see. this is especially true in a multiway pot.

as you play more and more, you'll start to think more like doyle, namely that bet, bet, bet is safer and makes more money than "ok, this hand imuna checkraise and then i'll trap him like this...."

If he's bad enough to get it in here, you could have gotten it by simply making the flop 12, the turn 30 and the rest on the river. the problem you have getting fancy here is many fold. if a 7 peels, you lose some action, if an ace falls A, etc.

think about it this way: even if you are making a slight amount extra here, the times you allow someone to straighten out on you and you lose your stack make it not worthwile. besides, if you really want to prep your game for higher levels, how often are you taking this line without a set? nobody plays anything but a total monster like this...

fim

FreakDaddy · #3 08-10-2005, 08:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
my opinion on this line is that it's high variance, low return. you can try it if you really know your opponents and have a better board, but your line can really get you in trouble when a 23478 or 9 peels and he hits what you don't see. this is especially true in a multiway pot.

as you play more and more, you'll start to think more like doyle, namely that bet, bet, bet is safer and makes more money than "ok, this hand imuna checkraise and then i'll trap him like this...."

If he's bad enough to get it in here, you could have gotten it by simply making the flop 12, the turn 30 and the rest on the river. the problem you have getting fancy here is many fold. if a 7 peels, you lose some action, if an ace falls A, etc.

think about it this way: even if you are making a slight amount extra here, the times you allow someone to straighten out on you and you lose your stack make it not worthwile. besides, if you really want to prep your game for higher levels, how often are you taking this line without a set? nobody plays anything but a total monster like this...

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur comrade. Well said.

#4 08-10-2005, 08:18 PM

Thanks for the time you put into this reply; I appreciate it.