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#1
08-07-2005, 11:08 PM
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are we liking this turn check/raise?
HEFAP suggest c/r on the turn w/ top pair A LOT more than I do. Here it was a large pot, lots of folks, and I decided I'd risk a free card on the turn hoping to get a c/r and knock out some guys who have a piece of the board and prevent them from drawing out on me. The pot was large enough to give gutshots and 5outers odds to draw to the river. Good use of c/r or no?
Basically, was it worth c/r or should i just bet the turn? Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Kfly is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Kfly 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls. Flop: (18 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Kfly bets</font>, UTG calls, MP folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls. Turn: (11.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> SB checks, Kfly checks, UTG checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Kfly raises</font>, UTG folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls. River: (17.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Kfly bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds. Final Pot: 19.50 BB 
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#2
08-07-2005, 11:12 PM
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Re: are we liking this turn check/raise?
I like betting the turn
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#3
08-07-2005, 11:14 PM
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Re: are we liking this turn check/raise?
[ QUOTE ]
I like betting the turn [/ QUOTE ] but do you see why i dont think that's a good option here? we want to win this pot, thus we dont want to bet giving everyone proper odds (theyd be getting 12:1) to call w/ anything.
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#4
08-07-2005, 11:15 PM
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Re: are we liking this turn check/raise?
No, bet the turn, the only way a c/r is effective here is if you know an LP player is capable of betting, at which point you can try to cut down the field.
Since you definitely don't know this, continue betting. Yes, they are getting the odds to call and outdraw you, but you need to keep making value bets. [ QUOTE ] we dont want to bet giving everyone proper odds (theyd be getting 12:1) to call w/ anything. [/ QUOTE ] This is pointless, no offense. The pot is large enough that you can't really protect your hand, ESPECIALLY since you've been the aggresor the entire time. A worse crime is checking and giving people free cards. Bet the turn.
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#5
08-07-2005, 11:16 PM
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Re: are we liking this turn check/raise?
[ QUOTE ]
No, bet the turn, the only way a c/r is effective here is if you know an LP player is capable of betting, at which point you can try to cut down the field. Since you definitely don't know this, continue betting. Yes, they are getting the odds to call and outdraw you, but you need to keep making value bets. [/ QUOTE ] When the pf is 3bet 6ways I am willing to make a bet that someone has a K or Q THEY want to value bet. No? CO raised PF and button CC'ed.
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#6
08-07-2005, 11:18 PM
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Re: are we liking this turn check/raise?
Yes, but you're essentially gambling that it gets checked to an LP player who will then bet. That's the only way you can protect your hand. Someone 2 spots after you could bet, and your chance of protecting your hand is further ruined.
And listen, even if you did c/r, you're giving villains almost 8:1 to call. A little more than 6:1 if you get your *dream scenario* and the last player to act bets. They're coming along anyways, if they're smart. Just bet. What you are doing is fancy play syndrome. You CANNOT protect your hand in a pot this large.
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#7
08-07-2005, 11:19 PM
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Re: are we liking this turn check/raise?
I totally see where youre coming from, but you cant gaurantee a bet is gonna come from one of the guys acting after you. I'd rather give them 12:1 than infinite odds
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#8
08-07-2005, 11:20 PM
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Re: are we liking this turn check/raise?
why on earth would you want to give everyone a free peak at the river? they want to fold. let them.
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#9
08-07-2005, 11:25 PM
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Re: are we liking this turn check/raise?
[ QUOTE ]
why on earth would you want to give everyone a free peak at the river? they want to fold. let them. [/ QUOTE ] well not to be an [censored], but apparently you guys are too boring or something. from HEFAP (advanced players...maybe that is telling me something about you guys? kidding....) "Here's an example. Suppose you start with AK and the flop comes A 9 2 rainbow. You have bet the flop and have been called by everyone and have every reason to believe that you have the best hand. If a blank hits on 4th street, which menas it is still likely you have the best hand, you frequently should check and prepare to check raise if someone else bets" page 142. explain. go. now.
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#10
08-07-2005, 11:27 PM
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Re: are we liking this turn check/raise?
Ugh, dude, If button wasn't dumb you would have likely given somebody a free card.
The only draw here you should be moderately worried about is TJ and he ain't folding. If someone held on to 2 clubs from the flop, well, they are not folding either. They didn't fold for 1 bet when they didn't have anything. Now they have $ CLUBS!!! DUDE THAT'S 1 CARD AWAY FROM WINNING!!! So what your CR did was weed out the hopeless draws, the ones you want putting money in because they are either drawing dead or will hit your draws so seldom, that you have nothing to fear. Now your in the in the pot with 2 people trying to draw out, neither of which will give you any action if they don't hit.
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