Is this wrong? If so, where do you play differently?

TakeMeToTheRiver · #1 08-01-2005, 03:26 PM

Playing in a 10/20 club game. It is 9-handed and the player to my left (CO in the hand) has been raising a lot during the last couple of cycles (I would say close to 50%). He wasn't too crazy for the first couple of hours I was there, but something seems to have come over him. Anyway, this hand happens:

I am in the hijack with red 7s. Two limpers, I limp, CO raises, button folds, SB folds, BB calls, limpers call, I call. (five to the flop, Pot = 10SB)

Flop is 45J rainbow

Checked around to CO who bets. One fold and two calls to me. I call. (four to the turn, 7BB)

Turn is a 2.

Same action (checked to CO, bet, three calls -- four to the river for 11BB).

River is a T with no flush possibilites.

Checked to CO, he bets, one call, one fold. I call.

It seemed so weak and so passive, but no one was showing any strength -- other than the maniac.

shant · #2 08-01-2005, 03:27 PM

Bet the flop into him and hope he raises and knocks out the field, then call him down. The way you played it, I fold the flop when it gets back to me.

hobbsmann · #3 08-01-2005, 03:29 PM

I think you need to find a donk bet at some point in this hand, preferably the flop in which case the maniac raises and clears the field for you.

W. Deranged · #4 08-01-2005, 03:29 PM

C,

I'm interested in which player this was. I have a couple of guesses though.

The key street here is the flop. Your hand is very likely to be good. Having the lag on your left is not generally great but will be useful in exactly this situation:

Bet the flop, with the hope the LAG will laggishly raise overcards and clear the field for you.

Checking and calling is much too weak because it does nothing to discourage opponents with overcards to your 7s not to play. In this situation, particularly given that the pot has been inflated pre-flop, you really need to go to war with hands like this that are decidedly above average.

If you get raised on the flop by CO as you hope to, I would strongly consider three-betting the flop, or at least calling the flop and then donk-betting the turn.

W. Deranged · #5 08-01-2005, 03:30 PM

That was three really quick concensus votes for the flop bet...

TakeMeToTheRiver · #6 08-01-2005, 03:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm interested in which player this was. I have a couple of guesses though.

[/ QUOTE ]

You wouldn't know the guy. This is not a hand from our favorite game -- it is from the Queens game (that I think I mentioned to you before).

[ QUOTE ]
The key street here is the flop. Your hand is very likely to be good. Having the lag on your left is not generally great but will be useful in exactly this situation:

Bet the flop, with the hope the LAG will laggishly raise overcards and clear the field for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

So Will (and Shant and Hobsman and other interested folks):

I felt that one of the limpers may have been "slowplaying" top pair or better and would check raise the initial aggressor. I had to believe that everyone expected CO to bet here. I guess a bet from me could have induced the same check-raise if CO didn't raise. When it got called around to me, I certainly could not raise now, could I? -- but there was a significant chance my hand was good (with huge negative implied odds -- I know).

Given the action as it happened, would you have bet the rag on the turn instead?

W. Deranged · #7 08-01-2005, 03:48 PM

Given how it played out on the flop I think that betting a rag turn becomes necessary, for basically the same reasons betting a rag flop was necessary.

sfer · #8 08-01-2005, 03:56 PM

Raise preflop.

shant · #9 08-01-2005, 03:57 PM

I don't see the point in being afraid of being check-raised. Your best bet to win this pot is to get it HU against the maniac. If someone comes along and check-3bets the maniac after he raises, you're not tied to the pot and you found out for 1SB where you stood.

TakeMeToTheRiver · #10 08-01-2005, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

I am not certain that would have changed the pot size... I guess it would have changed the image of what I was holding and let me take control of the hand... interesting thought...

I often raise medium pairs when I am first in and possibly against one limper. I guess it would work here against a group that was not going to fold to my raise anyway (but they may have folded if CO 3-bet).