Value betting on the river

[edge]

I sometimes see advice in this forum in the vein of making river value bets of miniscule amounts compared to the pot (1/5-pot, 1/4-pot). Personally, I never bet less than half-pot on the river, and I don't understand the point of the tiny river bets. For those of you who make tiny river bets, do you bluff for 1/5-pot as well?

I know my river play isn't the best, so I'm trying to look at how others do it.

[fsuplayer]

come to think of it, i dont think i ever bet less than 1/2 pot for value on the river either.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

Mostly because the weak players you are value betting think in terms of $XX.xx and not XX% of the pot. I would value bet my stack sometimes if I could get a call. Most the people you are value betting are holding some garbage like TPWK or Middle pair - they want to show it down, but they are only willing to call so much.

Your river decisions are usually for the largest amounts, this may also be a reason some people become weak/passive.

I usually wouldn't make a value bet that small as well. However if my opponent's stack size was only 2/5 of the pot, I might only bet 1/5 of the bet -- and cross my finger that they push all-in (assuming I'm confident that I'm ahead.)

[gomberg]

I only do it in very special situations.

Usually I'm against a weak tight player and I know that he knows I have him beat. If the pot is $600, he may just call $100 to see what I had, but any more than that and they'll fold.

The other time to weak lead is against a good player who you read will raise your bet with a very wide range of hands. Thus if you have a strong hand yourself, you can try the weak lead, call line to eek out more profit than a 1/2 pot value bet.

I'd say I do this maybe 5% of rivers where I have a good hand... so not too often.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
I sometimes see advice in this forum in the vein of making river value bets of miniscule amounts compared to the pot (1/5-pot, 1/4-pot). Personally, I never bet less than half-pot on the river, and I don't understand the point of the tiny river bets. For those of you who make tiny river bets, do you bluff for 1/5-pot as well?

I know my river play isn't the best, so I'm trying to look at how others do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

against some bad players they are a raise trigger. there have been some good discussions of situations where one should either value bet very small or push.

but yeah, in general you're not getting max value betting such small amounts, hence the fact that it is rarely done.

fim

[UCF THAYER]

When i have a fairly good hand, and it's clear my opponent was on a draw and missed, I will bet out very weakly when he checks to me on the river. You would be surprised at the number of times my opponents take this as an opportunity to bluff me with a huge raise.

[evil_twin]

I only deviate from 1/2 to full pot bets when I feel I have a good read. If you're fairly sure what the other guy has then you can start to judge what that person might convince themself to call.

So, those situations where you become convinced the opponent has that weak ace or a pocket pair lower than your top pair on board then you can go into extraction mode.

The comments that certain players will come over the top of any appearance of weakness are right on though, as always in poker, you must pick your spots. Just make a point of going into extraction mode occasionally with a set on a dry board against one of the aforementioned players as well, and you get the required deception in the mix as well.

As a strictly NL trny player, I use value bets all the time. Most of the time its from late position, but it can be done from early position as well. Most of the time I will value bet a pot when its been checked down to the river. It's sometimes called "pricing ur opponent into the pot". Contrary to popular belief, many players understand pot odds. Atleast they do in the higher buy in SnGs I play.