I suck at HU

[neon]

$5-10 NL on Pokerroom. 5-max table, which just broke after villain and I each busted someone on consecutive hands. Play at the table is very aggro, and my image is LAG to the hilt.

Stacks are both ~$2k. This is about the tenth or so HU hand, and I've raised my button every time save once. Villain usually plays pretty tight, but is definitely capable of move-making.

I get dealt Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button, and raise to $33. Villain calls.

Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Villain checks, I bet $48, villain raises to $150. I think for a bit and call.

Turn is the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Villain bets $150. I call.

River is the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Villain bets $500. I call.

Thoughts?

[Dr. StrangeloveX]

bof draw miss [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Player/gamestate dependent.

[flawless_victory]

when he makes that weak little bet on the turn, i think its time to make a decision. id fold there or make it 550 to go. take the free showdown in pos if you can... fold if he gives you more action. i hate paying off and taking weak hands to showdown.

[BobboFitos]

any merit to raising the turn to the amount you'd feel comfortable calling on a blank river? his turn bet could be a bunch of hands as once he c/r flop, he will bet the turn. which is either better TP, bluff, weak semibluff to strong one, or monster.

a raise on the turn has the potential to knock off both better hands and some draws you dont want in, and unless you've been playing so LAGgy he'll shoot it in with a ton of draws, him moving in is a pretty easy fold. so although it stems him from bluffing something worse, i'd rather end the hand now.

One problem is this raise is basically a "i want him to fold or i'm screwed," which means you dont need top pair to make it, esp. if your plan is to fold on the river if he bets (either value or bluff) again, which is certainly possible if he's prone to make a move.

so perhaps your line is good, given there are some rivers and/or bet sizes you would fold to?

I like pf and flop, too, no comments about that.

Also, were you planning on foldingto any rivers? Or depending on his bet size? ment to ask this first

[neon]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, were you planning on foldingto any rivers? Or depending on his bet size? ment to ask this first

[/ QUOTE ]

Something really didn't feel right about villain's bet sizes throughout the hand. I mean, he makes a big flop raise, a weak turn bet, and then a big river bet?

I likely would've folded to a big bet on a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8 or 3 river.

If he had fired more on the turn, I might have changed my read to a set, but the thinking I did on the flop was me deciding that I had the best hand. I mean, it's really not very likely that villain also has a queen here, right? His flop raise seemed like a tester w/ pockets below QQ, as he really had no reason-given my table image-to believe up to that point that I actually had a queen.

The idea of a turn raise is an interesting one; there was certainly some chance that villain was semi-bluffing w/ a draw, and that I might get Qx w/ a slightly less crappy kicker than mine to fold.

But I wasn't sure that he would even give any credit to a turn raise from me; my image was that laggy. And I thought that there was a decent chance that villain was either drawing to two outs w/ a pocket pair, or on pure air, as well.

I'm interested to see if others think that a turn raise, fold to a three-bet, and check down the river line would be good here.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

given that he bet the turn so weak, i wouldn't mind one of those lame min type raises for a free showdown, especially if you feel like you have to call down a lot of river cards and fold certain others that you may not of had to.

[neon]

Sorry, I kind of forgot about this one.

So I called villain's river bet, and he tabled 89o or some other crap like that. I think he had one club. He then spent the next five minutes berating me for calling down w/ such crap, during which time I flopped a set against his turned trips and stacked him. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I guess I just wanted to make sure my thinking wasn't too off base.

Hand values change soooo much in HU, and I just don't have all that great of a grasp on how often my top pair, bogus kicker, or second pair, good kicker is likely to be good.

I was kind of expecting someone to rip this logic to pieces:

[ QUOTE ]
the thinking I did on the flop was me deciding that I had the best hand. I mean, it's really not very likely that villain also has a queen here, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

But I really did think that villain either had me beat with a set, or was on pockets below a queen, a busted draw, or pure air.

That said, if my image or the game conditions were different, and if I didn't know villain to be a semi-bluffer, I think I'd be folding to his CR on the flop quite a bit. Or at least going w/ the idea a few of you mentioned and making some sort of non-committing raise on a safe turn card to force villain to define his hand and hopefully get to a cheap showdown.

Thanks for the replies.

[turnipmonster]

I don't have that much experience in HU NL, so maybe these observations are wrong/results oriented. feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. obviously all this is opponent dependent.

in HU limit, hand values go way down and you are seeing a showdown with any pair, most good aces and sometimes king highs. hands like TPTK are firebreathing monsters. in NL, there are far far less showdowns and as such showdown value of lower part of "good" hands goes down a little. high cards like good aces and smaller pairs can be bluff catchers but in general you can't bet them for value and things like that. I guess it seems to me like NL is much less of a showdown oriented game, which is of course true of ring games as well.

--turnipmonster