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#1
07-14-2005, 08:44 PM
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5/10 ATs against a steal, river play?
5/10, I know I need to get over this whole 'everyone's out to take my blind', but I can't just seem to give people credit when it's folded to them on the button and they raise. It's probably because I open-raise every attempt I get...anyway villain is a good/solid player. If the real answer is fold preflop then just say it, but that isn't much fun...
Folded to button, decently tight medium aggressive player, (I generally don't play with him since there are plenty of other playerss to play against), raises to 30, I call with ATs Flop comes Q53r I check/call 35 Turn 6 I bet 70, he calls. At this point I know I'm behind and ready to give up, I've been pretty aggressive on flops so I've started trying to steal pots on the turn, Villain will fold all bigger Aces to me on the turn with this bet if he hasn't connected... River A I check... This only works if villain completely misses and bets a bluff, but he probably isn't bluffing since he called my turn bet, huh? I don't think villain is aggressive enough to bet a pair here with the A on board... 
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#2
07-14-2005, 10:03 PM
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Re: 5/10 ATs against a steal, river play?
[ QUOTE ]
5/10, I know I need to get over this whole 'everyone's out to take my blind', but I can't just seem to give people credit when it's folded to them on the button and they raise. It's probably because I open-raise every attempt I get...anyway villain is a good/solid player. If the real answer is fold preflop then just say it, but that isn't much fun... Folded to button, decently tight medium aggressive player, (I generally don't play with him since there are plenty of other playerss to play against), raises to 30, I call with ATs Flop comes Q53r I check/call 35 Turn 6 I bet 70, he calls. At this point I know I'm behind and ready to give up, I've been pretty aggressive on flops so I've started trying to steal pots on the turn, Villain will fold all bigger Aces to me on the turn with this bet if he hasn't connected... River A I check... This only works if villain completely misses and bets a bluff, but he probably isn't bluffing since he called my turn bet, huh? I don't think villain is aggressive enough to bet a pair here with the A on board... [/ QUOTE ] You could always come over the top of villain preflop. I don't like calling with trap aces, I'm much more likely to call with something like QJs. As the hand played out -- this line looks OK; you're going to have to drop if he fires big on the river, but it looks like you caught up unless he's on AQ.
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#3
07-14-2005, 10:39 PM
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Re: 5/10 ATs against a steal, river play?
I like block bet over check-call here.. I see many worse hands calling 1/2 bet, and you can probably fold easy to any raise.
congrats on mod status [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#5
07-14-2005, 10:52 PM
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Re: 5/10 ATs against a steal, river play?
hey AZK,
unless you're playing mindgames with this opponent, which I dont think, because you say: [ QUOTE ] (I generally don't play with him since there are plenty of other playerss to play against), [/ QUOTE ] no way i check call the flop. yes, it doesl ook scary to a button better, as "what can you be calling with," but what hand does he think you have when [ QUOTE ] Turn 6 I bet 70, he calls. [/ QUOTE ] ? I dont think he gives you credit for 24, and you check/called flop and led turn.. I use that line alot with top pair hands that want small showdown... Allows him to call this small bet too and keep pot small with a showdownable hand. Given you hit one of your 3 (possible) outs I think you need to bet and have him pay off with Qx. [ QUOTE ] Villain will fold all bigger Aces to me on the turn with this bet if he hasn't connected... [/ QUOTE ] His hand range and fold range is much larger, but yea. Honestly, I may just check/fold the flop if I haven't established a steal pattern with the button. If he's good in a non weak tight manner firing away on the turn bluffing isn't what I like doing either. That said I would lead flop here often as this is a good bluff board. Halfpot seems right, i bet you would show a nice profit there. [ QUOTE ] This only works if villain completely misses and bets a bluff, but he probably isn't bluffing since he called my turn bet, huh? I [/ QUOTE ] you got it, he either has a stubborn PP and will check behind or Qx and wont value bet w/ ace...
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#6
07-14-2005, 10:54 PM
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Re: 5/10 ATs against a steal, river play?
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think he gives you credit for 24, and you check/called flop and led turn.. I use that line alot with top pair hands that want small showdown... Allows him to call this small bet too and keep pot small with a showdownable hand. [/ QUOTE ] I was trying to represent a queen, getting him to lay down on the turn...
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#7
07-14-2005, 10:57 PM
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Re: 5/10 ATs against a steal, river play?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I dont think he gives you credit for 24, and you check/called flop and led turn.. I use that line alot with top pair hands that want small showdown... Allows him to call this small bet too and keep pot small with a showdownable hand. [/ QUOTE ] I was trying to represent a queen, getting him to lay down on the turn... [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, you're right. The turn bluff shows profit (if button's steal range is huge + he will autobet most flops) that said I'd rather bluff the flop. ... Any rivers you'd consider betting 2nd barrel?
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#8
07-14-2005, 11:29 PM
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Re: 5/10 ATs against a steal, river play?
[ QUOTE ]
(I generally don't play with him since there are plenty of other playerss to play against), [/ QUOTE ] You are going to be playing with him more than usual in this session, since he has the button on your BB. So this is a change to induce a bluff from him that you can take advantage of later. I probly give this up on the flop. I cant think of a worse thing on this flop than check calling. If you're gonna call a bet here, you may as well make it. The way the hand played out, Im blocking on the river here for 1/3 -1/2 pot. Bingo
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#9
07-14-2005, 11:43 PM
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Re: 5/10 ATs against a steal, river play?
My worthless opinion..
Hey I don't mind calling with this at all preflop. I don't like calling this on the flop. I think this flop was perfect for a checkraise. Unless he's holding an overpair or has a Q you should pick it up. People give way to much respect when someone shows weakness preflop then comes alive out of nowhere. Your hand range is extremely wide here. When you come alive a lot of people start seeing monsters. This is really the only spot you can pick up this pot. Also if he just calls it's certainly possible that he will not bet the turn allowing you to hit your A or backdoor straight. Both of which he'll give you absolutely no credit for.
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#10
07-14-2005, 11:51 PM
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Re: 5/10 ATs against a steal, river play?
just exactly what is he going to bluff with? which is more likely, a busted single-card straight draw on the turn or a pair? how often does he raise preflop with a 4?
most of the time on the river he holds one pair. occasionally - but not often - he will have a 4. a goodly minority of the times that he has a 4 he will have an ace with it. rarely he will have two pair, hitting the ace. most often when you check he will check as well. i'd play for the most common happening, a weaker pair than aces. pick a bet size he'll call. oh and who's to say you should not raise preflop. matt
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