Feelin' Like a Chump with JJ

[W. Deranged]

10/20 live

I'm in the BB with JJ.

UTG+1 is a totally unknown player to me though he's wearing sunglasses and listening to an I-Pod shuffle (make of those what you will). Has seemed to play pretty tight so far. Button is a 2+2er and a pretty good player who I would expect to raise a pretty wide range pre-flop.

UTG folds, Shuffle limps, folded around to Button who raises, SB folds, I three-bet, Shuffle calls two cold, Button calls.

Flop: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Deranged bets, Shuffle raises, Button folds, Deranged three-bets (making some light-hearted "world of pain" comment), Shuffle caps, I call.

Turn: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Deranged checks, Shuffle checks (!)

River: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Deranged bets...

That turn made me feel like I had done something very untoward. Thoughts?

[crunchy1]

I think that the turn check is fine after he caps the flop. It's the river bet that I think is horrid.

He's made it clear on the turn that he's not putting in any more money unless he makes his hand. He's made it clear on the flop that he's not afraid to bet and raise.

Betting the river here gives him all the options to put you in a very uncomfortable situation. He may bluff when you check again. He's probably not calling with anything you beat. You're probably getting raised by anything that you're behind.

Check/Call the river.

[McGahee]

I don't like the river bet. Either he missed a straight draw, missed a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] draw, or he's one of those FPS experts who decided to check trips on the turn so he could raise your river bet. I don't see him calling with a worse hand and I think you might induce a bluff with a check.

I don't think I have a problem with the turn check. I'm not real thrilled about the top card pairing after a flop cap, and I think most players would bet this with or without a 9 after they cap the flop, so I'm not too worried about giving a free card. It's not really free anyway since 4 SB's went in on the flop. Basically getting this checked thru is not as disastrous as a bet that gets raised and I think the latter is going to happen more often than the former.

[W. Deranged]

Crunch...

You're totally right. River bet sucks serious ass.

It was largely an ego bet as I was pissed about the turn getting checked-through. I was talking a lot at the table and had developed a sort of table captain image and didn't want people to think they could pull moves on me... and hence made a really terrible play.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
It was largely an ego bet as I was pissed about the turn getting checked-through.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think there are many reading this that can relate to this type of bet.

[ QUOTE ]
I was talking a lot at the table and had developed a sort of table captain image

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is something you seriously need to consider working on. This is not the image that you should be going for.

[W. Deranged]

Agreed. Thanks Crunch.

[flair1239]

I have seen people take this line on Mid range PP on this type of flop. SO I think that can be thrown into the equation.

I almost wish you had not shown the turn action, because in retrospect it looks like bet/fold would have been a good line. However, something tells me when actually faced with the situation, I would be leaning towards call down mode.

The king makes it interesting, because if he was on a draw based on your PF and flop action, the King is probably a scary card for him. So I actually think he is less likely to bluff.


Let's assume the K is a scare card for him (if he does not have you beat). It all really depend how often he has a hand like 77, TT, A8s etc. I am assuming 80% of the time he is on a busted draw. So we need to compare the likelyhood that he has a hand that he may call with Vs. the likelyhood that he will try to bluff if checked to.

Being that the King hit the board, I have a feeling the EV between the two are pretty close. I can dummy up some math if you guys want. But basically what I am saying, is that I think the King on the river, depresses the amount of times he is going to bluff. If the river had been a 3 or something like that, I think there would be more value to checking, because he may try to push a hand like AK (which seems to be what most people assume you have when you are aggressive PF) out.

[McGahee]

I get what you're saying but I think the chances of him having TT, 77, or A8s are slim to none and slim's out of town as far as 77 and A8s are concerned.

[NickRegino]

I would check/call the river, his check on the turn might mean he is on a flush draw or has something like TT and is scared of the 9. The check on the turn could have induced a bluff to the 9 if he did have it.