Poker coaches

[Derek in NYC]

I read and play a lot. Im pretty sure that I am a winning player (having taken a $500 buyin and turned it into around $25k.) But I also know that some of my thinking is fuzzy. For example, it is fairly rare that in actual play I will consciously apply certain concepts that I have read about, such as "Im either way ahead or way behind right now, so check", and "Bet, because if you check he'll bet his better hands and check his worse hands". So I know that conceptually I have some major gaps in my understanding. Does anybody think getting a pokercoach would be worth it? How should I proceed?

[KidPokerX]

Here, I'll clarify both of those for you and hopefully save you $2000.

The easiest way to do this would be to give you an example,
[ QUOTE ]
"Im either way ahead or way behind right now, so check",

[/ QUOTE ]
So you have A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the hole and after all preflop raising is complete you land yourself with a 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] flop.

You now think to yourself. I can either (a) bet or (b) check, because I am either way ahead right now or way behind if my opponent happens to have a T or pocket 4's in his hand. Consciously or not, you are asking these questions to yourself each time.
[ QUOTE ]
"Bet, because if you check he'll bet his better hands and check his worse hands".

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what you mean here is the idea that if you check, you opponent will go ahead and properly bet the hands he needs to bet, but will check behind on the hands that are not.

You have 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and your oppoent checks to you on a x [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] x [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] flop. You decide that betting this flop would be the best way of achieving a free card on the turn. You decide this to be the best decision and therefore bet, whereas your action would have been different had he bet to you.

Pretty straight forward. Let me know if I can clarify.

-KidPokerX

As far as coaching goes, I am generally skeptical of it because I strongly believe that poker is best learned through hands-on experience. And I think reading, discussing, and strongly analyzing poker material is the most effective way of learning how to put those concepts to use.

[Erik Blazynski]

I can tell you that all of the books in the world will not evaluate your game like a professional coach. You need to find the correct coach for you. I have found the having someone to discuss my game and specific situations with has helped me to own a situation. i.e. If I have late in a tournament and I have TT utg, there are 6 players, I have 20 big blinds, I know exactly the right move, because I have lived it, and my coach and I have discussed it and I am very clear what needs to be done in this situation.

Dan at http://pokercoaching.com can evaluate and set you up with the correct coach.

[Al Schoonmaker]

You wrote: "I can tell you that all of the books in the world will not evaluate your game like a professional coach. You need to find the correct coach for you."

I completely agree. NOBODY can provide the objectivity of a good coach. In fact, virtually all professional athletes and many top poker players have coaches.

One of the most valuable contributions our forums make to all of us is having someone else "coach" us. We post a hand or another kind of problem and get feedback. A one on one relationship with a coach is even better.

You are also correct about the need to find the right coach for you. MOST good players are TERRIBLE coaches. They tell you how they would have played the hand, but you don't have their gifts. You need someone who analyzes your strengths, weaknesses, and style and suggests ways to develop YOUR game.

You do NOT have to retain a professional coach, but a pro will be more helpful. You can swap coaching with another player.

You can also join or start a poker discussion group. The Wednesday Poker Discussion Group has helped us all immensely. You can read about us at cardplayer.com. Click on magazine, writers, and my name.

If you want to reach your full potential as a player, you NEED a coach.

Regards,

Al

[CaptSensible]

here's some more links:

http://www.pokercoach.us/teach.html

http://www.tiltless.com/questionnaire.htm

[KidPokerX]

[ QUOTE ]
If you want to reach your full potential as a player, you NEED a coach.


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think this a little broad? For some, yes I think a coach is worthwhile.

[Dan Mezick]

I jump in here and plug my personal coach and friend, Coach Jim Bucci at PokerCoaching.com.

I started PokerCoaching.com in July of 2004. Since I had an interest in it, I never wanted to mention here since it could be viewed as shameless self-promotion on 2+2's forums.

I am no longer involved with PokerCoaching.com. After setting it up and kicking it off, I have chosen to transfer 100% of my interest in PokerCoaching.com to Coach Jim. So now I have no problem plugging this absolutely great poker coach on 2+2.

I met Jim at the 2003 WPT World Poker Finals at Foxwoods, through a mutual friend. In discussing tournament hands with Jim, I was very impressed with his thinking and insight into the tournament NLTH game. Jim is in his 60's and is a real people-person. At Foxwoods, he described many poker issues and concepts I never really studied in any kind of depth previously. I adopted Jim as my coach after striking a deal about his compensation.

My game immediately improved.

Coach Jim has won many tournaments, and has cashed in World Series events. You can learn more about that here on Jim's Bio Page

Jim's way of coaching involves watching you play online. While observing he coaches you over the phone. The method is VERY effective. After the online play more discussion ensues on specific hands of interest that occurred during the session.

Jim mostly looks for players who want to win No Limit Texas HoldEm tournaments. Bill Seymour, another proven tournament champion, also coaches at PokerCoaching.com.

Jim continues to coach my game, and I can highly recommend both Coach Jim and Coach Bill.

Jim highly recommends the Harrington on Hold'Em series of books on tournament poker. We both laugh alot about pages 16 and 17 in Volume 1.

If you are interested in getting a REAL poker coach, someone who has been there and can teach it as well, you cannot do better than Coach Jim Bucci. He can provide GREAT poker student references.

I highly recommend Coach Jim. Reach him at 301 373 6104 to discuss the coaching process.

[Al Schoonmaker]

In response to my statement that you need a coach to reach your full potential, you wrote: "Don't you think this a little broad? For some, yes I think a coach is worthwhile."

No, I do not think that my statement is too broad. I believe that virtually everyone will benefit from coaching. NOBODY is completely objective about himself.

I know of only one major name who has explicitly stated that he does not discuss hands with other people, Layne Flack. I would guess that there are others, but EVERY successful player I know personally talks about hands and gets coaching on other subjects from various sources.

The back cover of all of our books contains a quotation from Greg Raymer: "I can say with full confidence that if it were not for Two Plus Two Publishing and their website, I would not have the 2004 World Championship bracelet on my wrist."

Mason will soon publish my "Poker Psychology Essays." I regard coaching as so important that I ended the book with: "Afterthought: Do you really need a coach?"

It emphasizes the need for objectivity and states that ALL professional writers have "coaches," but we call them "editors." Let me quote from the closing paragraphs.

"Let me use myself as an example. I swap editing with several poker writers, and I am especially good at reducing their wordiness. Despite that skill, my own writing is often much too wordy. Why? Because I fall in love with my own words and don’t want to change them. I can’t see them as 'just words.' They are mine, and I can’t be objective about them. So my friends do for me what I do for them: Cut out the unnecessary words, smooth the flow, and correct other errors. I swallow my foolish pride and try to keep my mind open when they tell me what’s wrong with my work.

"Many wannabe writers respond quite differently. They flatly refuse to accept criticism, or they get defensive about it. They essentially insist, 'Don’t touch my wonderful prose. I know what I want to say and how to say it.' As I’ve told many of them, 'If John Grisham and Tom Clancy can accept editing, maybe you should do the same.'

If the professional writers, athletes, and poker players believe that they need coaching, maybe you do too. I’m fortunate because I have several 'coaches,' friends who help me with both my playing and my writing."

End of quotation

Unless you are an intuitive genius like Layne Flack, I encourage you to get coaching from a professional, a friend, a group, or our forums. Better yet, get it from all those sources. I fervently believe that you can't reach your potential without help from other people. In fact, I regard refusal to get help as another sign of denial of reality.

Regards,

Al

[Al Schoonmaker]

Tiltless.com is the website of Tommy Angelo, an outstanding coach and a good friend. By chance I had breakfast with Tommy yesterday, and we spent over two hours discussing his coaching system.

It was one of the most educational meals I have ever had. I recommend Tommy without any reservations. He is REALLY good.

Regards,

Al

[KidPokerX]

Al-
I would like to apologize for my stubborness. After reading what you and others had to say I have changed my opinion towards coaching. I now agree that coaching is a very valuable tool for learning and understand now that poker coaching seperates the good players from the world class. Thank you for your advice.
-Brian