Limp Re-Raise Gone Horribly Wrong

[Big_Jim]

Hero has very LAG table image.
Villian likely thinks that hero is a donk, and is fairly TAG, not tricky.


Empire $4 BB 6 Max
Hero (UTG): $850
Villian (Button): $900

Preflop : Hero is dealt 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero Calls. 2 folds. <font color="red"> Villian raises to $16.</font> Blinds fold. <font color="red">Hero Raises to $60.</font> Villian calls $44.

Flop $126: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

<font color="red">Hero Bets $100</font>...

I figure that Villian puts me on AA-QQ AK, although, he may suspect that I'm making a move, due to how LAG I've been playing in recent hands.

Should I just be done with this hand, despite the large fold equity that I probably have from the PF LRR ? It is quite likely that this flop hit my opponent (who I put on AA-TT AK).

How was the continuation bet size?

I've been experimenting a bit with limp re-raising before the flop, since it seems like such a powerful play.I have had success when using it with premium hands, but I don't want to give away too much information by doing it only with premium hands. Not to mention the massive implied odds when I do hit.

Anybody else use this play much? Any recommendations?

EDIT: Forgot stack sizes

[soah]

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Limp Re-Raise Gone Horribly Wrong

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Hero has very LAG table image.

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Villian likely thinks that hero is a donk

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Hero is dealt 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

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[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Big_Jim]

I think the fact that he likely thinks I'm a donk makes it seem even more likely that I have a big hand. But that thinking could be flawed.

[durrrr]

I dig. I do this too, gh- u cant win em all. I hope u gave up unless the turn hit scare card/spade (even then i probly give up). Although if you are gonna play LAG you must be willing to stack off on a bluff on occasion(not intentionally, but rather when you think that your opponents will fold). If Ts hits the turn i think i c/r allin unless villain is too donkish to fold naked K here. If villian folds show.

-durrrr

[legend42]

It is flawed. You need to save this move for when your table image is solid. You also overstate the implied odds when you hit. There just aren't that many situations where the deception of holding 65s (insteads of say AA-QQ, AKs) will come into significant play.

As for the move itself, I think you gotta give it up once you see that flop. Not only did it likely hit your opponent, even if you DID have AA-KK you'd be hating that board. You'd have to seriously overbet the pot to look like you were protecting, and that's no good. I might throw a very small (hopefully he'd see it as suspisiously small) bet out there just in case he has an underpair, but that's it.

Wait until you have a better image to make these plays.

[Big_Jim]

If villian is likely to call down with weakish hands, thinking that I'm a donkey, shouldn't that make me more inclined to LRR when I actually DO have a premium hand?

Your point about overstating my implied odds is well taken.

[iceman5]

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If villian is likely to call down with weakish hands, thinking that I'm a donkey, shouldn't that make me more inclined to LRR when I actually DO have a premium hand?

Your point about overstating my implied odds is well taken.

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Exactly! So why are you doing it with 65s?

[Big_Jim]

Touche.

This is far from a standard play for me, and I was mostly curious about other players' strategies for limp re-raising.

[Big_Jim]

How would you play this flop with AA, and the same PF action?

[Proofrock]

I don't like this play. Why limp-reraise here at all?

You say your image is LAG, + you're at a 6-max table, so your starting requirements are not just premium hands. As villain, I would figure your hand range to be a pocket pair (not just AA - QQ, but expanded to include anything down to probably 88), AK, or a bluff (I'd give the bluff particularly great weight, especially if I had seen you do this before, but also because something seems fishy with this particular LRR -- you're LAG so presumably you're raising lots of pots -- why not raise with aces, since you're already likely to get action?).

You raise is $44 into a pot of $36 - With AA or KK, you don't want to lose your action, so I'd expect your reraise to be smaller -- say another $30 - 35. I know 44 is not much more, but it gives the impression that you have a vulnerable hand and don't want to see the flop OOP.

If you get called and the flop doesn't hit you just right, you will be forced to give the hand up or run with a complete bluff out of position.

Once you make it to the flop, you're in a bad spot. Villain has called your reraise, so he's telling you he has a hand. With that flop, it's extremely unlikely that villain didn't improve, so all you really have going for you is that villain may read you for AA or KK and doesn't have that beat. If you have aces here, how much do you bet? And if you had aces and got raised on this flop, what do you do? If you're not ready to give up on it yet, I'd play the flop like you have aces. Personally, I would have made a continuation bet of either 1/2 - 3/4 the pot (assuming you would do this with AA,KK, or QQ from time to time) and give up on the hand if I didn't pick it up there.

I only use the limp-reraise occasionally, and almost always with a premium hand (unless I have a good read on villain). I want to use it at a table where my early position limp is likely to get raised. In my opinion, the strength of this play doesn't so much come from the big hand it represents, but from showing that you're capable of limping with a premium hand. It's not a play that should be used frequently or haphazardly -- I get the impression that you limped to see how the hand would develop, and then decided you might as well try to steal it. I would fold and wait for a better time to make this play.

-cj