TT

[Scotch78]

5-handed 3/6 game. A loose-passive (43/5 over 100+, 1+ AF) limps in the cutoff and I raise with TT.

We're heads-up for a J65r flop and he check-raises me. I've seen him bet into the pre-flop raiser on a Q-high board with QT, and I have a feeling he took a shot at me in our last heads-up encounter.

I call and raise the turn, an ace that puts a two-flush on board. The river is a brick and I check behind. Also, I probably would've raised any turn card other than a 6 or 5.

Scott

[Lmn55d]

I don't like the turn raise for a few reasons. First , you don't want him folding a pair of 5s , 6s, 2s, 3s, etc. or a bluff. Secondly he's rarely folding a jack, he's at least gonna call the turn raise to try to hit 2 pair.

[Surfbullet]

I don't like the turn raise either. You're getting an extra bet out of a hand that just picked up a flush draw, but your letting him fold his garbage pairs instead of paying 1 bet on the turn and river to get to showdown (you have position, right?)

I much prefer this type of turn raise when OOP. When we've got it let him hang himself with bets, and if he stops betting we charge him to see a showdown with his junk pair.

Surf

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the turn raise for a few reasons. First , you don't want him folding a pair of 5s , 6s, 2s, 3s, etc. or a bluff. Secondly he's rarely folding a jack, he's at least gonna call the turn raise to try to hit 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

A loose-passive is more likely to A) call the raise (than fold) and B) check the river (than bet) with all of those hands. Unless my call scares him out of betting a jack on the turn (and I check behind), raising the turn is preferable because it hits him before he has a chance to outdraw me and it reinforces his passive tendencies for the future.
Scott

[Alobar]

I dont see the point in raising the turn if you are going to check/behind the river, assuming he never folds a jack (which he prolly wont).

[Lmn55d]

it is not at all uncommon for a loose passive to fold a pair of 5s or similar to a turn raise when hero's hand looks exactly like AK...the one hand bad players put good players on.

[GetThere1Time]

I agree that a loose passive is going to call a raise with a bad pair and not fold it. So I like the free showdown play rather than the call/call on the turn and river. How passive was he exactly? Depending on the player you might get a free showdown anyway.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that a loose passive is going to call a raise with a bad pair and not fold it. So I like the free showdown play rather than the call/call on the turn and river. How passive was he exactly? Depending on the player you might get a free showdown anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make sense - if were raising for value (but taking a free showdown) we should just bet if checked to and call otherwise on the river, to avoid being 3bet. Those pair hands that will call a raise on the turn will undoubtably call 1 bet on the river.

The only gain is from when he has a flush draw and will not call a bet on the river - but these hands may take a stab with a bluff so it isn't a total loss.

Surf

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't make sense - if were raising for value (but taking a free showdown) we should just bet if checked to and call otherwise on the river, to avoid being 3bet. Those pair hands that will call a raise on the turn will undoubtably call 1 bet on the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't going for a free showdown per se. I had a feeling I was ahead, but wasn't sure. Two bets were probably going into the pot no matter what, but I wasn't confident enough in my read (when he check-raised the flop I felt I was ahead more often than not) to put in three bets (i.e. follow through on the river). If I am ahead, raising gets that second bet in before my opponent has a chance to outdraw me, and that was my main reason. I also have a preference for raising and then checking behind against passive players when I think the EV is similar to call-call, but that was secondary for me.

Scott

[Alobar]

if two bets are going in the pot no matter what, it doesnt matter if they both go in when you are ahead or the last one goes in when you are behind. The end result is exactly the same, every single time.