A-5 vs. 2-7 draws

MarkGritter · #1 07-01-2005, 03:57 PM

As David Sklansky pointed out in this month's magazine, the best one-card draw in 2-7 lowball isn't 2345x, it's 7432x. This got me thinking a bit about corresondences between A-5 and 2-7 draws.

In 2-7, 2345 draws to #1, #5, #19, #53, #122, and worse hands.

But in A-5, A234 draws to #1, #2, #7, #22, #57. So it is obviously a much stronger hand (9 outs to #10 or better.) In fact, it corresponds much more closely to 2-7's 2347, which draws to #1, #2, #10, #42, and #58 (also 9 outs to #10 or better, although the backup hand 97432 is relatively weaker than 8432A)

Does any A-5 hand work like 2345x, then?

543A: #1, #5, #10, #25
5432: #1, #6, #11, #26
532A: #1, #3, #8, #23
632A: #2, #3, #12, #27

It doesn't look to me like there is a good counterpart at all (which is not too surprising because 2345 can make the 6-high straight.)

I think the SS2 section on A-5 doesn't do the game justice; there are significant differences in draw strength due to the different structure, not just a different set of labels. (Although DN does suggest always dumping a 7 on the first draw, which is obviously a major difference from TD play where keeping an 8 is usually correct.)

Any thoughts?

randomstumbl · #2 07-01-2005, 04:21 PM

There's a much smaller number of hands in a-5 than in 2-7. I haven't done the math, but I've always assumed the good hands (#1-5) occur more often in a-5 than in 2-7.

It's harder to make mistakes in hand valuation early. There just isn't a hand where you're as screwed as 3456 in 2-7.

Hands run closer together and there aren't "key cards". Aces and fives aren't as important as deuces and sevens. That eliminates some moves that I'm able to make. You can't snow as much and you can't bluff raise the river as confidently either.

It seems like about the same game except that you lose the value of opponent mistakes early on. I suppose a lot of people still think that 345 is as strong as a23. So, I might be over selling that difference to an extent.

rallbritain · #3 07-02-2005, 04:59 PM

The main reason good hands like (#1-5) occur less frequent is due to 2 reasons. First Hands like 76543, that are draws to powerfull hands, are often forced to be folded, but a draw to the nuts in A-5 is rarely folded. Also in A5 there are hands that draw to 2 top five hands, like a234 and a235.

I'm new to TD but ive found at the lower limits .25/.50, my BB/h is much greater at 2-7 than A-5. I think this is due to the fact that beginers fail to see why 72xxx is much better than 73xxx. I'm assuming that this will taper off quickly at the .50/1 level and probaly not exist much at the 1/2 level online. Have any of you noticed this?

timprov · #4 07-02-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming that this will taper off quickly at the .50/1 level and probaly not exist much at the 1/2 level online.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. Still get plenty of people at 1/2 who are this clueless and more.

randomstumbl · #5 07-02-2005, 06:39 PM

If you search this forum, I'm pretty sure you can find at least one 80/160 hand that demonstrates that people still love one card draws to sevens that don't contain a 2 at that level.

rallbritain · #6 07-02-2005, 10:25 PM

wow. I'm just getting my feat wet with TD on UB. what has the best action on the 1/2 and 2/4 levels? UB is pretty thin except for the micro limits.

timprov · #7 07-02-2005, 10:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wow. I'm just getting my feat wet with TD on UB. what has the best action on the 1/2 and 2/4 levels? UB is pretty thin except for the micro limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

UB's really it if you want any action at all. I almost never have any trouble finding a 1/2 game, though I often have to start it. 2/4 and 3/6 are a little harder. The 5/10 seems to run more often.

randomstumbl · #8 07-11-2005, 03:21 AM

So, I hate bringing up an old post, but I've been playing some A-5 lately and this crossed my mind.

When you're drawing to beat a pat hand in A-5 you're often drawing at 3 outs. That is a situation that is, for the most part, avoided by good 2-7 players.

Obviously, part of what I need to do to improve my A-5 game is to learn how to avoid drawing thin without folding when I have odds to call. That seems to be a big adjustment when moving from shorthanded 2-7 to a full table of calling stations in A-5. You just won't catch up as often in A-5.