$400 PLO8 hand #2

[Wintermute]

$400 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Friday, July 08, 02:07:08 EDT 2005
Table Table 55259 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 2: Hero ( $440.3 )
Seat 5: xxxCHANCExxx ( $460.6 )
Seat 6: FinDonkey ( $339.6 )
xxxCHANCExxx posts small blind [$2].
FinDonkey posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ac 7c Ah 6h ]
Hero raises [$14].
xxxCHANCExxx calls [$12].
FinDonkey folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, 5d, 2h ]
xxxCHANCExxx checks.
Hero bets [$31].
xxxCHANCExxx calls [$31].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]
xxxCHANCExxx checks.
Hero bets [$93].
xxxCHANCExxx calls [$93].
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
xxxCHANCExxx checks.

No way this guy could call two pot-sized bets to a possible scooping three-outer (I say possible because for all he knows I'm full on the turn so he's drawing to low only), and then check the river when it hits, right? ... unless he knew I was going to fall into the trap:

Hero bets [$279].
xxxCHANCExxx is all-In [$322.6]
Hero is all-In [$23.3]
Hero shows [ Ac, 7c, Ah, 6h ] two pairs, aces and fives. Hero shows 6,5,3,2,A for low.
xxxCHANCExxx shows [ 4c, 2s, As, Jc ] a straight, ace to five. xxxCHANCExxx shows 5,4,3,2,A for low.
xxxCHANCExxx wins $10.15 from side pot #1 with a straight, ace to five.
xxxCHANCExxx wins Lo ($10.15) from side pot #1 with 5,4,3,2,A.
xxxCHANCExxx wins $441.8 from the main pot with a straight, ace to five.
xxxCHANCExxx wins Lo ($441.8) from the main pot with 5,4,3,2,A.


Flame me for a bad-beat post if you must, but I think this is an instructive hand in that it serves as a reminder of how things can go horribly wrong in PLO8 when you give your opponent credit for thinking rationally.

[gergery]

Stormtrooper,

I’d have raised to about $25 on the flop instead of $32. I will frequently make bets around 80-90% of the pot, in circumstances where I think it’s likely my opponent missed. If he’s going to fold, he’ll fold for the smaller amount. I make that same bet with QQ here too. Basically, my bluffs gone wrong cost less, my monsters still get paid, and the pot is smaller for these type of hands where you are likely ahead but are in limbo.

I’d have underbet the turn as well to maybe $75 for same reasons. $93 won’t generate any more folds than $75, but saves you $18 if you’re screwed. I’m betting like this with weaker hands more than monsters so it works out in my favor overall I think. If he doesn’t have a 5 then he’ll be hard pressed to call this so most likely he folds. If he calls then he’s likely to have some sort of low. If he raises to put pressure on your potential A2/A3 low then he has a 5. Since he calls, I figure him for an A3 type hand

I’d have checked behind on the river. That may be weak tight, but I don’t see any hands that you are going to scoop/3/4 calling a bet. Maybe an A6Q hand or something, but any hand that is going to call should win at least half the pot. If he does have the A23 then he folds anyway or you scoop. If he has an A24 you’re screwed. If he has a 5 he calls and you split. Since he called all the way, I think an A3 hand is most likely, and he’s going to fold that to any bet you make anyway.

Also, I think his play is kinda donkish but not terrible, but the fact that he called you all the way down and waited to check-raise the river indicates that you may be riding the fine line a tad too far towards aggression. Misplacing one’s testicles can have advantages, you know. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
But yeah, I basically play it the same.

Just my 2 cents, again its totally playing the player shorthanded, and I haven’t played lots of shorthanded PLO8.

btw, you were again my good luck charm last night. I jammed on the turn when my opponent had the nuts, then caught my quads on the river to stack him.

--Greg

[Ironman]

Winter,

No flame from me. You had a good two way hand that looks like you played pretty well, but you just got outdrawn.

There are probably ways to get away from the hand, but I don't see them against 2 other players. It just happens. He just had the one hand that kills you because he can't lay it down.

Dave

[Jorge10]

The river bet was a mistake in my opinion, I mean anyone that calls probably has you beat, I would have just checked it down and picked up the pot. I doubt anyone that would have called any amount on the river wouldnt have you beat in some way. But overall just bad luck on the river.

[JoshuaMayes]

I would always check behind on that river. Your opponent was either drawing to beat you and will fold to your bet because he missed or he will have you beat for at least high and call. To me, this looks like a bet that will only loose you money in the long run. Given how poorly he played this hand, I suppose their is a chance that this donk would call you with a worse hand, but not many players are bad enough to call that bet with a hand that can't beat aces up, IMO.

[Wintermute]

I know what you guys are talking about with why I should check the river... I think this is a leak for me (along with the occasional huge river bluff-raise that doesn't go over well). But there are a lot of times when the opponent is SO weak, I feel like I'm leaving money on the table by not betting. In this case, this idiot was stupid enough to call for 1/4 his stack on the turn to 3 outs, without any certainty that the 3 outs would even scoop for him... a player like that I have a hard time checking behind regularly. There's probably a middle ground, I just have to work on finding it, and sensing when I could be screwing myself royally by betting. Anyway, just to give an example of a situation where I could've bet the river profitably but didn't (and BTW, this guy is a known complete moron, which is why I made the "horrible" calls on the flop and turn):

$200 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Friday, July 08, 19:29:08 EDT 2005
Table Table 55480 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 2: Hero ( $186.65 )
Seat 6: Riapeno ( $208.4 )
Hero posts small blind [$1].
Riapeno posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 4h Qs 3d Ad ]
Hero calls [$1].
Riapeno checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 2h, 9c ]
Hero bets [$3.8].
Riapeno raises [$15.2].
Hero calls [$11.4].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
Hero checks.
Riapeno bets [$33.4].
Hero calls [$33.4].
** Dealing River ** [ 8s ]
Hero checks.
Riapeno checks.
Hero shows [ 4h, Qs, 3d, Ad ] high card ace.
Hero shows 8,6,3,2,A for low.
Riapeno doesn't show [ 3c, Kc, 5d, 4c ] high card king.
Riapeno doesn't show 8,6,4,3,2 for low.
Hero wins $50.1 from the main pot with high card ace.
Hero wins Lo ($50.1) from the main pot with 8,6,3,2,A.