Top two deep stacked

[Ole16]

Hey -

Playing deep stacked is something I think I can improve and I would like people´s take on this hand.

Main villain (BB) is pretty much a donkey, who got lucky chasing and overplays his hands a lot. I doubled up through him about an hour earlier pushing for about 500 into a 170 put with TP/flushdraw - his OESD didnt get there.

No real read on SB.

Anyways -

3/6 NL
Stacks:
Me: 1600 SB: 250 BB: 1900

Folded to me on the button with Q9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] - I raise to 16.
Both blinds calls.

Flop (48): Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Check, check, I bet 25 (too small??), SB checkraises to 110, BB calls -

My move ??

Thx in advance.

[fsuplayer]

easy push here. they dont expect you to have much here, so the CR doesnt mean all that much. the cold call by the BB is a draw much more than a real hand.

i aint getting away from this.



edit: and yes, bet more.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

Isn't a push here too extreme because of the stack sizes? You're really putting yourself into a situation where all worse hands fold and better hands call. I'd re-raise too, but a push here seems way out of line.

[DarreniHH]

First, Your raise isnt enough for what you are trying to do (steal the blinds) because I hope your not trying to build a pot with Q9.
To continue, the raise should have been and should always be 4x the size of the BB.

6x4=24 thats the first mistake.

The bet into the pot, what are you trying to accomplish? Build another big pot with a possible PP out there (teasing him to chase, not to mention the heart draw and straight draw are out there) Bet the Pot (48) or a bet here of 48-55 is fine here too.

The Flat Caller obviously has the flush draw, so the correct move vs him is to move all in.

The problem here is the check-raiser. So let's look at the hand possibilitys.

If he wanted to trap you with say.. (AA KK) that is a possiblity. And he would play it excatly like that. Cold call to a good looking flop, check check-raise big. Doubltful he has QQ here. I think he'd re-raise preflop with QQ since he'd kick himself if he didn't and the flop came AK4 and there is betting.

I would re-raise you here with 99 (preflop), but thats me. so I don't think its 99. the only hand you are in major trouble with, that I think is a resonable option,
the trip 5's. and that is very possible.

You also have things like QK QJ Q10 AQ Q5 95 A9 ect.. in bad shape, and most of these hands would check-raise you here.

You have most of the hands here beat that make this play except for QQ 55 99 and with me outlawing the possibility of QQ and 99...I move all in.

[TwoNiner]

Yeah, pushing is just bad with these stacks. Your gonna make a guy make the correct move who is capable of overplaying hands for a lot of money.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't a push here too extreme because of the stack sizes? You're really putting yourself into a situation where all worse hands fold and better hands call. I'd re-raise too, but a push here seems way out of line.

[/ QUOTE ]


whoops, misread it, thought the stacks were 600 and 900.


in that case, make it 400 straight.

[Ole16]

Thx for the replies -

As for the preflop-raise, I agree I should have made it bigger - I dont like the general idea that it should ALWAYS be 4xbb.

The flop bet was what I was doubting at first - I bet more next time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The main issue was how much to reraise. I wasnt particular concerned about SB as the range of hands he would make a c/r with was too big, with his stack size in mind, to really worry about.

I didnt like pushing as for the reasons which have already been posted. I considered it though, having taken Villains play earlier on into consideration.
I raised it up to 425. SB called and showed QJ - BB folded.

Thanks for the replies.

[DarreniHH]

What I tell you Ole? I'm the master of making the right decision; just come holler at me man.

thanks for the good hand.

[Jonny]

you need to reraise here. They have a hard time putting you on top 2 here. I'd probably bet more on the flop too. It's very dangerous, multiple draws out.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
To continue, the raise should have been and should always be 4x the size of the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a ridiculous statement. There is no pre-flop raise that is always correct. What makes you think 4x the big blind is the "right" raise and 3x or 5x "wrong"? These guys are both 250+ big blinds deep, too, which makes the difference between $16 and $24 here almost negligible.

[ QUOTE ]

The Flat Caller obviously has the flush draw, so the correct move vs him is to move all in.


[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming the flat caller is always on the flush draw (which is not necessarily true), why is all-in for $1500+ into a $300 pot the correct move? Even against this opponent, who will call $500 in a $170 pot with an open-ended straight draw, $1,500 into a $300 pot might scare him away. That's a doubly bad result since you'd love to get a side-pot going against the big stack's draw in case the short stack has you beat or gets there with his draw. Moving all-in against the big blind's flush draw is not even remotely the correct play. With these nice deep stacks, you can raise enough to give him poor odds on the flop then either get the rest of his money in on the turn with only one card left to come or get away when his flush draw hits.

SpaceAce