QQ - Confused on turn

Backstabr · #1 07-03-2005, 05:28 PM

4/8 live

MP1 is not TAG, but is tighter and more aggressive than rest of the table.
MP2 is your standard LP calling station

Preflop: Hero is CO w/ QQ. MP1, MP2 limp. Hero raises, folded to BB who calls.

Flop comes Tc, 3h, 4h. Checked to hero who bets, BB folds, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn is 2d. MP1 checks (!), MP2 checks, Hero ....?

I checked, but only because I was baffled. When MP1 capped, I was sure I faced two pair or better (34, 33, 44). How often am I missing a bet here by checking?

Hybrid_11 · #2 07-03-2005, 05:32 PM

I don't like giving the free card but either your way behind or mp1 is playing a very aggresive flush draw, what are reads on mp2 or did he just get stuck along for the ride.
Like i said I hate giving the free card so i bet and if raised probably call down or possibly even fold

gaming_mouse · #3 07-03-2005, 05:33 PM

bet and fold to a raise.

A_C_Slater · #4 07-03-2005, 05:34 PM

Probably on a flush draw because if he had a made hand here he would be betting to charge a flush draw.

Backstabr · #5 07-03-2005, 05:41 PM

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what are reads on mp2

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With calling stations, it's always tough, but they're a bit more reasonable at 4/8 than, say 2/4. I put her on top pair, OESD (56), flush draw. I suppose 34 is possible as well.

Hybrid_11 · #6 07-03-2005, 05:44 PM

with mp2 weak play it seems your probably ahead and mp2 got stuck in the middle of a war and just cant let go of top pair or is on some kind of draw. mp1 either is drawing or has you way behind and is looking for a check/raise on the turn thats why i stand behind a bet/fold type move here cause i just can't give the free card

Moneyline · #7 07-03-2005, 06:16 PM

I don't think this hand is quite that atypical. Your aggressive opponent may have something like a flush draw and a gutshot, or a flush draw and a pair of tens with a weak kicker. He may also be trying to get tricky with a check/raise. Therefore, the line I prefer here is betting the turn and folding to a check/raise. If I get called on the turn I think I'd probably check behind on the river. Betting the river might not be bad though, depending on exactly how loose and passive your opponents are.

bozlax · #8 07-03-2005, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MP1 is not TAG, but is tighter and more aggressive than rest of the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about we figure that MP1 is holding TPTK or TPGK (AT/KT/QT/etc.), possibly suited in hearts, or the heart flush, and he's over-playing his hand on the flop trying to scare you out. I mean, seriously, is he somewhat tight? Then what hand could he have played from MP1, even the first time around, that gives him two pair? Is he somewhat aggressive? Then what's he holding that beats us that he didn't raise preflop? The only hands I'm worried about after the flop action are 44 and 33, and I'm not giving him credit for those without a fight.

Don't give him a free card! Bet the turn, call if raised and re-evaluate on the river.

bozlax · #9 07-03-2005, 06:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this hand is quite that atypical. Your aggressive opponent may have something like a flush draw and a gutshot, or a flush draw and a pair of tens with a weak kicker. He may also be trying to get tricky with a check/raise. Therefore, the line I prefer here is betting the turn and folding to a check/raise. If I get called on the turn I think I'd probably check behind on the river. Betting the river might not be bad though, depending on exactly how loose and passive your opponents are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? I don't get it. Your rationale for bet/folding the river seems to be that he's likely to be getting tricky with a hand that's worse than yours.

Moneyline · #10 07-04-2005, 12:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Huh? I don't get it. Your rationale for bet/folding the river seems to be that he's likely to be getting tricky with a hand that's worse than yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Either you misread my post or my post wasn't clear. I'm not advocating bet/folding the river. I'm advocating taking that line on the turn. My rationale for bet/folding the turn is that if my opponent has a better hand he may be trying to get tricky with a check/raise on the turn. However, this player could also have a good draw that he pumped for value on the flop, but now wants a free card with on the turn. By bet/folding the turn you lose only one bet if you're behind, and you don't allow your opponent to get a free card if you are ahead.