Bet or C/R the flop?

walkdoc · #1 07-01-2005, 03:55 PM

This was my 2nd to 3rd hand at the table. No reads at all. My lead out bet was hoping the pre-flop raiser would raise and help me isolate the table. Is this just plain dumb? Should I have check raised or just called? With my position I felt I was kind of screwed no matter what on the flop. After that, no problem and pf raiser helped out later.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, 4 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, UTG calls.

River: (20.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 24.25 BB

crownjules · #2 07-01-2005, 04:09 PM

C/R the flop. You have a flush draw so you want to keep as many people in the pot as possible for value. If you bet out and MP2 raises immediately after you, everyone is faced with 2 cold and you'll no doubt lose most of them. C/Ring will trap people inbetween for a bet.

BBD · #3 07-01-2005, 04:09 PM

I'd bet out here hoping to build a big pot. I think with this type of draw I'd want as many callers as I can get. Assuming I did hit another [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]; there are not many hands I would be concerned about, so isolating doesn't seem to be as important. play for the overcall, I think this will certainly pay much better when you do make the nuts on 4th or 5th street.

deception5 · #4 07-01-2005, 04:10 PM

You are looking at this the wrong way. Your position relative to the preflop raiser here is perfect. On the flop if check, the preflop raiser will likely bet and you can raise trapping the whole field for 2 bets where you'll win ~35% of the time! This is not a hand where you want to end up heads up against the preflop raiser who may have you dominated. It's a hand where you want to hit your flush and get paid off huge because everyone is staying in because the pot is so big.

deception5 · #5 07-01-2005, 04:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
C/R the flop. You have a flush draw so you want to keep as many people in the pot as possible for value. If you bet out and MP2 raises immediately after you, everyone is faced with 2 cold and you'll no doubt lose most of them. C/Ring will trap people inbetween for a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. This is a textbook check/raise.

LoaferGee12 · #6 07-01-2005, 04:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet out here hoping to build a big pot. I think with this type of draw I'd want as many callers as I can get. Assuming I did hit another [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]; there are not many hands I would be concerned about, so isolating doesn't seem to be as important. play for the overcall, I think this will certainly pay much better when you do make the nuts on 4th or 5th street.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to build the pot, you should be check-raising. The people behind him are much more likely to call 2 bets 1 at a time as opposed to 2 cold.

walkdoc · #7 07-01-2005, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You are looking at this the wrong way. Your position relative to the preflop raiser here is perfect. On the flop if check, the preflop raiser will likely bet and you can raise trapping the whole field for 2 bets where you'll win ~35% of the time! This is not a hand where you want to end up heads up against the preflop raiser who may have you dominated. It's a hand where you want to hit your flush and get paid off huge because everyone is staying in because the pot is so big.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks a ton. I now see how I've been getting that all wrong! Doh!!! Thanks all! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
walkdoc

BatsShadow · #8 07-01-2005, 04:42 PM

I'm leaning toward the check raise. Since you have the Ace, it seems likely that your raiser has hit that queen or jack. Let him bet, they'll all call, then you can raise.

Sinnister · #9 07-01-2005, 04:44 PM

Awful, what are u doing playing A4 suited and asking us what went wrong. Read SSH starting charts.

davelin · #10 07-01-2005, 04:45 PM

Easy c/r