Stop & Go vs. Check Raising

[SonOfWestwood]

I'm trying to understand when to use these two plays. I tried doing various searches but was unable to find anything, so I'm hoping I could get some thoughts on why people choose to do one versus the other. Just to be sure I understand the terms, I understand that "stop & go" would be something like leading out the flop, getting raised, calling the raise, and then leading out on the turn. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Just so there's something a little more specific to discuss, let's use a situation like this:

You limp with a low to mid pocket pair, get raised a modest amount (4-6BB), and you call. You flop a set, but the board is draw heavy (2 cards of the same suit and 2 to a straight). Your read is that the raiser's range of hands he'd raise with include hands that would give him a straight and/or flush draw right now as well as the obvious things like big pocket pairs.

So, you lead out, he raises you, and you call.

Here is where I'm wondering what the difference is between leading out again and going for a check raise. When would you do one versus the other, and why? What are the variables that you consider that make you lean towards doing one or the other? Does the decision change if the turn is a brick versus a card that puts 3 to a flush or straight out there?

Anyway, I hope this isn't too vague. Basically, I'm trying to get an idea of the variables that I should be considering when choosing between these two plays.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[tek]

A check raise would be good if you have a set and want to shut down a possible draw. Instead of betting out and having a passive player fold, you check, he bets and you go over the top. If he was a ggressive you could just bet and go over the top and get more chips.

A SNG would be good for a monster hand that wants others to stay in on subsequent betting rounds.

[djoyce003]

I actually disagree here. I think people are more inclined to call the checkraise, and fold to the stop-n-go. The average player just doesn't know what to make of it, and their first instinct is to fold. I almost always bluff by doing a stop-n-go and get more folds doing this than I do with big checkraises.

[Ghazban]

Any time you flop a set in SSNL, your immediate thought should be "how can I get all the money in?" This should lead you to realize that the optimal line will depend heavily on stack sizes. That applies to your actions on all streets (though you'll usually get all-in on the turn at the latest with 100xBB stacks and a preflop raise).

It's also dependent on your opponents and their perception of you. If they think you are a maniac who will go nuts with a draw, bet/get raised/push right on the flop can be the easiest way to stack off against an overpair with a set on a draw-heavy board. Alternatively, check/raising the flop and pushing the turn is sometimes better (though in that case a turn that completes a draw can either beat your hand or kill your action). Sometimes the turn will complete a draw and pair the board and you have options to take a slower line as you no longer need to worry about the flush and straight draws.

Anyway, my main point here is that the question you're asking isn't really the right question. The question you should be asking is "How can I get all the money in with a flopped set on a draw-laden board?" and the answer to that question relies heavily on stack sizes, opponent's aggression and his idea of how you play.

[SonOfWestwood]

Yeah, I definitely agree that I should be worried more about how I should get all my chips in the pot, in the case of a set. That may have been a bad example.

What I'm trying to understand, really, is how a S&G differs from C/R: does one scream monster more than another, is one better to keep multiple opponents in the pot, is a S&G just meant to be like a blocking bet, etc.? Obviously all scenarios to use one versus another cannot be covered, but I'm just trying to get an idea of some key variables I should be considering when deciding to use one versus the other.

Thanks.

[Ghazban]

In mulitway pots, they can be very different in the effect they achieve. For example, if you are in the BB, the raiser is UTG, and there were two other callers, leading into the preflop raiser might get him to raise and put the other two people to a very tough decision facing a bet and a raise. Using position, you could semibluff a small OESFD into the raiser knowing that his (likely) raise ought to be enough to knock out bigger flush draws behind, cleaning up your outs and greatly increasing your pot equity. If you had a set, you might be better off checking to the raiser, then when he bets maybe one of the other people will call or raise and you can then checkraise having gotten more money into the pot.

Headsup, it comes down more to what you think the opponent will think you have with one option vs. the other. Some opponents get annoyed by getting lead into and will bluff raise so, against them, a stop and go is a great way to get paid off. Some see that as a sign of great strength and will lay down good hands. Against them, you make more money checkraising (as they'll fold anyway but at least will put in some more money first).